3rd Sunday Dubs @ the Lick

[grease]

Anyone interested? 1:00 pm? let's get it going!

[Pulverizer]

Count me in.

[mgs]

I'll come out to play

[craigd]

I'll come out to play

Now I guess I better come out. I'd love to get a chance to play with "The Champ"! Good shooting at Lake Russell, Merritt! Hope to be there Sunday...

[grease]

Cool! We have at least one group so far!

[Pulverizer]

As it turns out I can't make it. Got tickets to the Tenn vs Florida game in Knoxville Saturday. Won't be back in time.

[grease]

I would say that's too bad, but that will be a good game. I was hoping to have 2 LRO champs in the mix. Congrats on you wins Tim and Merritt.

[craigd]

I would say that's too bad, but that will be a good game. I was hoping to have 2 LRO champs in the mix. Congrats on you wins Tim and Merritt.

That's right! Sorry I missed that Tim. Congrats to you too on your big win! Sorry you won't be making it out.

[Pulverizer]

Thanks guys. It was an honor to represent Deerlick honorably.

[grease]

Let's make it official. 1:00 start. $5 action ,$3 for ctp's ,and $1 ace making it $9 all in. Meet at the pavilion on hole one. Tell your friends!

[mgs]

Thanks Grease/Greg, but if you look at the list of people I played against, they have all beat me on other weekends, LR just happen to be my weekend this year, it was great competition and great play by everyone, I love LR.

[grease]

This Sunday will be huge!

[craigd]

Had a good time today. Thanks for running the action, Grease. Looking forward to next time!

[grease]

Thanks to everyone who showed up! Wow 36 people! 3 49's played off and Craig Dickerson and mike Eldridge were the winners. Jeff Bonney and Chris Millay got second and Darren Schatz and I got 3rd. Hope to see everyone October 21st for more action. Thanks for the added ctp action Craig D and Bob Williams.

[mr.disc]

more drums or horns.......

[grease]

Floats please, and a cape and baton to lead the parade!

[Funky Bobby J]

Bring Parade Kid out of retirement - he lives close by!

[craigd]

Dubs happening this Sunday?

[Pulverizer]

I'll be there.

[grease]

Yes, dubs this Sunday at 1. $9 all in and meet at the pavillion by hole one. Had a great crowd last time and looking forward to seeing everyone .

[grease]

Come out and play the Lick this Sunday at 1:00. It'll be a great warmup for Fright Flight next weekend as we will be playing disc golf there as well.

[Ryno]

Blind draw or bring your partner?

[grease]

Blind draw

[grease]

Great turnout Sunday! Gerald and Jeff won it with a 50. Leroy and Tim won the playoff for second against Darren and Rino both teams shooting 51. Great to see lots of new faces including our friend from across the pond. Hope to see you all 11/18!

[grease]

Dubs is on this Sunday at 1:00. $9 all in with $5 basic, $3 ctps, and $1 ace fund.

[grease]

Anybody?

[craigd]

I'll be there providing that the ol' lady doesn't contest...

[inspzig]

it will be a great day for golf come on out Ill be there.

[grease]

Looking like a great turnout this Sunday! Come out and have a good time at the Lick! I'm putting up a Blizzard disc of choice as a ctp on 6.

[grease]

Good turnout yesterday. Patrick and I win it with a 45 and Darren and Gomez get second with a 49. Hope to see ore of you in December.

[heartman]

Should be a decent showing of McCurry guys coming up for December dubs ... at least 5 and hopefully 10+.

[grease]

Cool! Looking forward to seeing you guys!

[Pulverizer]

Dad gum it. Doubles keeps lining up with Falcons home games. I'll be there in spirit.

[grease]

You do realize that doubles are 3rd Sunday right? Don't forget folk, next Sunday (Dec. 16th) we will be having random draw doubles at Deerlick. Buy in is $5 action, $1 ace, and 3-$1 ctps. Ace fund is $34. I will throw in an added "special" ctp as it's almost Christmas. And ,BTW, watch your language Tim!

[heartman]

Looks like it's supposed to rain alllllll day Sunday. Any chance of moving action to tomorrow (Saturday?)

[grease]

Can't grant. Hopefully the weatherman is wrong as he is sometimes.

[heartman]

Oh well, I'll still make the trek Sunday and hope for the best

[grease]

Thanks Jason! You're a trooper!

[heartman]

Well the weather is scaring us McCurry folk off

Hope it holds off and you get a good turnout tomorrow. We'll try and make it up there some other time.

[grease]

Don't forget 3rd Sunday dubs this weekend at the Lick if you aren't going to Rome!

[Pulverizer]

Or to the NFC Chamionship Game. RISE UP!

[grease]

Did you get your disc Tim? For those less fortunate than Mr. Bell, please try to come out to our humble doubles at Deerlick this Sunday at 1 o'clock. We meet at the pavilion near hole one. It's random draw and costs $5 general action, 3-$1 ctps, and $1 ace for a measly total of $9 all in. Hope to see you Sunday. Weather is looking great!

[Dr. Manhattan]

Ill be there

[Pulverizer]

Yes, got the disc. Thanks man. I hope dubs goes good tomorrow. I should be there for February's.

[grease]

Good turnout today considering. Darren/Myself won with a 55. Derrick,/Merritt 2nd with 56, and Patrick/ Wayne 3rd with 57. I got 2's ctp, Darren got 6's, and Patrick got 10's. Thanks for coming out to play everyone and see you next month.

[grease]

Next 3rd Sunday (2-17) is Frost in the Woods at Roswell and I would not want to conflict with a charity event. So, let's do 4th Sunday instead(02-24). Hope to see everyone there.

[jritger]

I would not want to conflict with a charity event. So, let's do 4th Sunday instead(02-24)

6th annual perkerson park open (charity event) is Feb 24th ...

[grease]

Oops! Didn't see that. No dubs in February.

[p_patin]

I'll be there this coming St. Patrick's Day. I'm looking forward to learning more about the sport and meeting some new folks who like to play. Grease and mgs it was nice meeting you two the other day and thank you for all of your hard work. See you on the 17th!

[grease]

Don't forget dubs this Sunday at the Lick. 1:00 EST at the new hole 8. We have a practice basket there to keep you busy if you show up early. All levels welcome(Patrick loves truck drivers), ace is $34, and I'm throwing in a Proto McBeth Roc as a free ctp. BRING IT!

[Pulverizer]

Dubs were great today. Good times.

[grease]

Agreed. Good turnout and great weather. Thanks to everyone who came out.

[p_patin]

Dubs this coming Sunday (21 April) at 1 pm. See you guys there!

[inspzig]

just a remminder bring your aluminum cans every bit helps towards getting the rest of the course done with new pads see you suday for doubles

[craigd]

just a remminder bring your aluminum cans every bit helps towards getting the rest of the course done with new pads see you suday for doubles

Will you take bottles too? Hopefully Grease will donate all those Zima empties he polishes off during the round

[grease]

Dubs is on this Sunday at 1:00. $9 all in with $5 basic, $3 ctps, and $1 ace fund. Ace is up to $52. Hope to see you there!

[inspzig]

yea what he said be there

[grease]

Gonna be a great day for golf Sunday. 0% chance of rain! Got a lot of folks saying they will show. Time will tell. Make it if you can!

[Pulverizer]

Good times were had today. Great showing of peeps. Can't wait till next month.

[p_patin]

Grease,

I spoke to you at today's dubs regarding a change to the team selection process. So, I would like to open this up for conversation.

My suggestion was to create two halves of the deck. One half would be the selection pile for the advanced players and the other pile (the other half of the card pairs) would be the selection pile for the novices. You shot down my suggestion stating that the current random draw selection process makes sure that everyone has an equal chance at winning and every team would be composed of one novice and one advanced player combination. It would be more competitive and fair for everyone.

I disagree completely with that statement. Statistically, the advances players are the only ones who have a chance at winning regardless of their team mate. The novices have a zero chance of winning unless they are paired with an advanced player. Please explain to me how that is fair and equal for everyone?

So, unless the dubs selection process changes the novices have no incentive to contribute to the pot since statistically speaking they have such a small chance of winning to begin with. If the novices stop contributing, the advanced players will stop coming since, monetarily, it doesn't make sense for them to participate.

The current team selection process clearly favors the advanced players and to state anything other than this to people contributing to the pot is simply immoral. If the goal is to simply pay the advanced players for coming out then the current system is working. If the goal is to give everyone a fair and equal chance to win then the current team selection process is failing miserably.

And to be perfectly clear, I do not care about the money or even winning necessarily. And I don't even care if we continue to use the current team selection process. However, I do care that you are telling everyone that the current system makes it fair for everyone. Not only is that clearly false but it hurts the integrity of the game.

Please discuss.

[grease]

It is RANDOM DRAW! How can you call it a "team selection process", and how in the world does it favor anyone? Plus, tell me how your new system would work when we have 5-6 new players and 10-12 advanced players? Would the 6 new players get to pick from the 12 advanced players, then the remaining 6 advanced players pick between each other? It would never balance out.I was a novice at one point and continually played random draw doubles at Oregon Park in the 90's regardless. Sometimes I got a seasoned veteran as a partner and sometimes I got a new player like myself. I still continued to play and learn as well as strive to get better, until one day, I was no longer the new guy. I never asked the guy running the action to level the playing field. It was just a luck of the draw thing. That's just part of the game. I didn't win today either, but I had a great time.

[Funky Bobby J]

"Please discuss"

Quit whining and play if you want or not. EVERY random draw doubles in the city is run the same way. Everyone of us came up playing under the same auspices. What the hell defines an advanced player or a rump? What about the players that are something in between? How do you stop sandbaggers? Who the hell wants to try to run double trying to figure out who should be paired with who - and wont that lead to MORE pissed off people? It's RANDOM draw doubles - it is what you signed up to play. Start your own Patin's most equitable doubles at a park of your choosing. As a rump it is okay to ask questions - not okay to whine... Beautiful day - nice people - throw your plastic, practice, and you'll be advanced one day.

[p_patin]

Okay so making a suggestion is now called whining? What statement that I made would you consider whining? And how much weed do you seriously need to smoke so that you can no longer tell the difference between a rump and a pro player?

I can see that talking about statistics might hurt your remaining brain cells so I'll put it in simpler terms. Advanced players will always have an advantage over a rump. If you disagree with that statement, then stop reading now and go back to zoning out on the couch watching re-runs of Veronica Mars.

It doesn't matter who pairs up with an advanced player because they are the reason their team has a chance to win. A rump will never win unless they are paired up with a significantly better player. That simple fact makes the current draw system unfair for the rump and clearly favors the advanced players who are the ones getting paid every 3rd Sunday. To say otherwise is a lie. So stop saying it. That goes to Grease, directly. If you fail to understand that I'm sorry but you simply aren't very smart.

And are you seriously trying to use the logic, "They do it that way so why shouldn't we?" OMG that's so cute you actually believe there is no room for improvement.

How about this? Continue with the existing system, stop telling people it's fair for everyone and instead of collecting money for a pot to pay off the advanced players for showing up, how about using that money to improve the park? If it's truly about throwing plastic and having a good time, then prove it. I would gladly pony up $10 every dubs weekend to pair with a nub to better the park.

The truth is, your responses actually sound more like whining than my suggestion. I made a logical and reasonable suggestion to which your response was, "They do it that way why can't we?" Call Whine One One for a Waaaaambulance. Did you ever think that if we changed our system, perhaps other parks will recognize the advantages and change their system too and the sport can grow that way?

And I had a good time too yesterday despite losing by more than 20 points using the fair system. I love to get out meet friendly folks and throw plastic too. I'm just not stupid enough to believe that a system that costs me ten bucks and almost guarantees me to lose can be called fair. Agreed, almost everyone loses. I understand that. But to have 20 points separating the winners from the losers and having the balls to say that everyone has an equal chance to win is irritatingly ignorant.

[htorbit]

I don't know you p_patin and it is obvious from your comments in the post above, you don't know Bobby or anything about him. DON'T always assume a fun loving jovial disc golfer is smoking something!!!!

Random Dubs is the way it is and it is the same way everywhere I have played. Either play or don't! If you want dubs to be played a different way, start up your own dubs. Running any kind of action is a hassle and all should be appreciative of Grease for running the action. I wish I was close enough to play 3rd Sunday dubs at Deerlick! Maybe put less emphisis on winning money and more on playing with new people and learning things from other players. The chance to win money is what lures the better players to participate in random draw dubs and if they don't show up, the less experienced player will have no one to meet and learn from.

[Funky Bobby J]

"The current team selection process clearly favors the advanced players and to state anything other than this to people contributing to the pot is simply immoral. If the goal is to simply pay the advanced players for coming out then the current system is working. If the goal is to give everyone a fair and equal chance to win then the current team selection process is failing miserably."

Sounds like whining to me - immoral??? - give me an f'n break. You signed up for the as-advertised RANDOM DRAW DOUBLES.

Logistically, your plan will not work out. Of course, there are a couple of players that one could clearly discern they are advanced - but most of us fall somewhere in between. Again, who the hell wants to try and organize the debacle that you are suggesting - who should be paired with who, what about all of the players in between advanced and rump (which is the majority) - how do they get paired up? Who the hell judges who is better than who for a bunch of people that have never met or seen play. Advanced players show up hoping to get paired with a better player too and take home some dough - but understand that they could get paired with a rump and that is okay too. Why would they come play if they knew they were going to automatically get paired with the worst player? They wouldn't show up.

If you want to run it, put it on the board and run it yourself and see how many advanced players show. Most of us played for years hoping to draw an advanced player and praying to hit a CTP or ace when we didn't get a favorable draw.

Lastly, be careful with your personal stereotypes ass-tard, you are painting with awful broad strokes and you have no idea what you are talking about.

[grease]

There IS a ratings and skill level based system that is in use all over the world in disc golf. It's called sanctioned tournaments. Random draw doubles has been run the same way for decades and is set up to let players mingle that may have not met or played together. That's what the emphasis is on. I enjoy winning,getting a CTP, or even ace, but that's not what it's all about. BTW, no one in my five some was smoking pot. We did a few lines and some peyote, but no pot smoking. If you had drawn the best player Sunday and won, would we even be discussing this?

[p_patin]

Thank you for clarifying that the point of dubs is to pay the better players for showing up and for nubs to pay for an opportunity to mingle with the plastic gods. I think I'll pass from now on. Just make sure you advertise it as such instead of misleading the lesser players the next time you take their money. And I would be having this conversation if I had been paired with a pro and won. In fact, I have been discussing this with my local club since the first time I played dubs last month and recognized the obvious flaws in the draw method.

I recognize that categorizing players would be difficult but that doesn't mean it isn't worth trying. But making sure a nub has at least a decent player on their team is not too much to ask for $10 of their money. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I am surprised to get so much resistance to that point that you guys actually attacked me. This is getting less and less productive every time you comment.

[gvan]

The resistance is due to your insistence that you, with obviously little experience with the history of local doubles, must know the better way to do things. In Gwinnett County last year, someone ran a dubs tournament just like you suggested. Even with weeks of planning, selecting the teams took over an hour that morning. It just wouldn't work on a regular basis.

Consider this, a 1000 rated player shows up. everyone else in the "advanced" pool is 950. The advanced players have 0 chance of being paired with him in your scenario. In random draw, everyone has the same chance.

By the way. Random draw doubles happen in other sports too. It's not like someone is scamming to steal $5 from you. It's a format that has been used for many years longer than anyone here has been playing. And it's not fear of change that keeps it this way, or lack of intelligence, it is experience.

Get some of that experience. Run dubs your way a few times. Anyone can say someone else should do something different. Prove yourself by doing something better and when people start favoring your events over all the others, the format will change all over the country.

[grease]

What a minute? This is an elaborate hoax,right? You got us p!

[heartman]

The only dubs in GA that maybe has enough players to do an A pool and B pool would be Alexander dubs.

There's really only a handful of places in the country that could support a multiple pool random draw dubs system (Charlotte, Twin Cities, couple places in Cali/Texas/Kansas)

... and the multiple pool system is a mess to do because you've got everyone wanting to be in the B pool so as to get an A pool partner, and then the TD has to deal with tons of extra crap

random draw = best

[inspzig]

anyway nice shooting with a score of 44 Derek schatz @ Gerrit van vranken

[grease]

I think it was a 43 and it was Craig Dickerson. But, agreed, nice shooting!

[inspzig]

my bag

[Pulverizer]

Being somewhat of a noob myself. I must say I enjoy getting to play with more experienced players. That one little thing you notice or ask about my shave another point off your score. And I don't mind getting paired up with a total noob either. Then I can be the teacher.

[craigd]

Thank you for clarifying that the point of dubs is to pay the better players for showing up and for nubs to pay for an opportunity to mingle with the plastic gods.

I'd like to point out that at least one of the winners yesterday is nothing more than a glorified intermediate player at best, hardly the plastic god that you so disparagingly describe! Anyway, I've played who knows how many doubles rounds and went home with a lighter wallet almost every time save just a small handful of rounds. So yesterday was certainly unusual but was very exciting for me given my past history.

With that said, I'm struggling to understand the problem you have with the format. I think everyone knows the breaks and odds. You could have just as easily paired up with a stronger player, helped out with a few good drives and some clutch putts, and then just as easily cashed out. I contend that doubles, at least with the larger turnouts, will have different winners almost every week. Yesterday proved that you don't have to be a couple of pro players to win. That's the beauty! Doubles gives a variety that singles just can't. Singles (at least without divisions) would be much less fair than random draw dubs.

I'd like to also point out a couple of other values in a good organized doubles league with solid turnouts. For newer players, playing with advanced players is always helpful for your game. If you're not partnered with one you're likely to at least have one on your card. Free lessons!!! CTP's are generally open and taken by folks of all skill levels and have the possibility to pay out more than cashing. And of course Deerlick gives ample ace opportunity's and a chance at the pot.

Lastly, the comradery is awesome. Compare going to play a round by yourself or with just a couple buddies with the turnout like we had yesterday. There were folks standing around talking golf, comparing rounds, laughing, complaining, telling stories of bumps and bruises, and explaining that missed 15' putt. These are great times! Hanging out with disc golf buddies and best of all getting to play a round is the best part! The money is just gravy or icing on the cake!

I hope you give it another shot p_patin! Doubles is all about fun! I'm not saying that losing is fun but a round of disc golf always is!!! The goal should always be to win but if you can't win at least try to have fun!

Oh yeah, we did divisional doubles at Oregon Park for a while ($2 Tuesdays). The same issue happens with that format too. Often a top advanced guy would wind up drawing a top beginner guy. Obviously they had a good shot at winning. That is just part of random draw dubs. Doubles does add a little luck into the mix based on who you draw but that's part of the fun of it. At the end of the day, as I mentioned before, you get to hang out with buddies, play a round of golf, and if you go home with a little cash it's just a bonus.

[mgs]

@ Craig and my nephew Derek, Great shooting!!!!!! I think next month we tie Derek’s Left hand to his right foot, it’s just not far how far he can through 

[p_patin]

To Funkybobby: I was just jabbing at you cause you said I was whining. I did not take any of that seriously and I appreciate your point of view.

To Grease: English is not my mother tongue. German is. I was talking to a friend last night over pizza and beer and he explained what you probably meant by "fair for everyone." I was thinking statistically (the german engineer in me) and he said that most likely you were trying to say that no one is being given any special treatment. Which makes sense in this situation.

Still, I can see room for improvement even if it means paying the pros for their time and advice directly. At least that way everyone wins to some degree.

[grease]

Ja, ja naturlich! That's the only German I know.

[Funky Bobby J]

P_patin No worries man- see you guys again in a month.

[heartman]

Ich studierte Deutsch im Gymnasium und Uni, aber kein mehr ... jetzt Geographie.

Fick Grammatik

[mr.disc]

Mcdonalds is near by i hope ........

[mr.disc]

I remember when i used to frolf......

[grease]

Hook set and reeled in! I Was waiting for that!

[grease]

Don't forget Deerlick Dubs Sunday the 19th. Not this weekend, but next. Thinking of doing an impromptu meeting this Sunday for the heck of it if anyone is interested. 1 o'clock singles or dubs depending on how many show.

[heartman]

Don't forget Deerlick Dubs Sunday the 19th. Not this weekend, but next. Thinking of doing an impromptu meeting this Sunday for the heck of it if anyone is interested. 1 o'clock singles or dubs depending on how many show.

If I wasn't cooking my mom dinner for Mother's Day, I'd try and come out there after McCurry dubs ... really want to play Deerlick again

[grease]

You can always come to the dubs on the 19th.

[heartman]

You can always come to the dubs on the 19th.

Will you pay for my gas from Athens?

[inspzig]

all baskets are in the long for this month enjoy

[grease]

Doesn't look like I'll be able to make dubs this Sunday. Can someone pick the action up for me please? I know there are capable people that can run it.

[grease]

No one? Can't cancel dubs because I can't make it.

[keith johnson]

Doesn't look like I'll be able to make dubs this Sunday. Can someone pick the action up for me please? I know there are capable people that can run it.

Sorry - I'd love to help, but I'm running 3rd Sunday doubles at NGCT.......

[grease]

Action postponed until 4th Sunday. Same time and place.