Dimensions of Teeing Area

[Dale H]

A group of folks are discussing construction of concrete tee pads for Central Park. The question came up...Is there a minimum width defined for a "teeing area". The rules indicate that in absence of a tee pad that the length is 10m (9' 10"). What about width of the front tee line? Is there a minimum or maximum specified by the rules. What is typical width. Tried to find in PDGA rules and discussion to no avail, your wisdom is appreciated in advance.

Dale

[Funky Bobby J]

I know this does not answer your question, but the biggest fear for me is that we will end up with tee pads like Toccoa which would be worse than what we have now. I know a lot of hard work went into theirs, but many are too short for the hole length and are well above ground level which makes for very awkward transition in the run-up. I would rather wait a while and make sure that we get first-class tee pads than put anything in that just meets the min requirement (which I thought was like 3' x 10' for some reason). We also have issues with mud erosion in several areas that could keep certain pads covered in mud.

We need mac-daddy tee pads at Central so everyone can get good run-ups for 275' bombs!!!!

There is a lot of stuff in the course design thread on the PDGA site that should tell you what you want to know.

[Wookie]

I loved the ones they had down at the Ant Farm. Those suckers were huge. I always thought a 4 foot wide front with a 6 foot wide back and about 10 feet long would be an excellent pad.

They really do need to be elevated a little above the surface of the ground to avoid mud running on them but I also think they need to be a little lower than the standard 2x4 which is really 3 1/2 inches wide. Also some erosion measures would need to be added to the ones where water flow would be a problem, like 2, 8, and 9. Like maybe using some gravel and a drain to allow the water to flow around the pad instead of onto it.

Just some ideas to think about.

[Dale H]

Bob,

I agree about poorly constructed concrete pads -- they are a complete waste of $$ and effort. However, I have played on some courses that have some very nice concrete pads. Generally these are trapezoids with say 5' to 6' wide at back, tapering to 3' at front tee line, and 12' to 15' long. This design accommodates right or left run-ups. Even for those of us with large strides and size 14's these are smooth. The better pads are also poured at close to ground height so that step up is not an issue.

One of the issues at Central Park is that we have a few teeing areas that are poorly sited (e.g., red 7, 12h, 12i). Whether the issues are due to terrain, elevation, proximity to creek, etc., I don't think that having a mat would help on some of these but believe a concrete pad would be a marked improvement. An issue with pads is that they are portable which works for moving them to accommodate different layouts but also means that they can be easily removed and redeployed in someones mosh pit, deer camp, cell, or similar. It is tougher to move 2000 lbs of concrete and they could withstand a pounding from drunken softball rage guy.

I would just note that we are at the informal, Coors Light, paper napkin, and what-if planning stage. Our current calculations show that we would require about 25 bags per pad, so about $87 material cost per concrete pad. We would also have to build one or more concrete forms which would run us around $50 bucks a pop but would be reusable.

Dale

[Dale H]

Wookie,

I agree with you about the need to make grading and erosion improvements. This would apply to either mats or concrete pads. If we (or the county) are going to spend the money, we need to ensure that make smart improvements prior to installation.

Dale

[Dale H]

From the PDGA Course Design Guidelines PDF...

"Ideally the tee pads should all be the same type (i.e. all natural grass/dirt or all hard surface). If permanent, make them at least 5’x12’ with some pads longer on long holes. Consider making tee pads even wider at the back"

So for the example 5' x 12' pad. it would require around 34 bags or $118 in material cost per pad.

Dale

[Can't Hit Open Putts]

Some of the best tee pads I've played on were in Kansas. They were a short (5ft) but wide trapezoid shape (4ft in the front and 7-8ft in the back). The thing that made them great was that each box had railroad ties a few feet around the concrete on the front and sides filled with crushed rock. This allowed for good drainage and grade correction. You could land a small plane on the Ant Farms pads, I sure do miss that course

[grease]

The rules indicate that in absence of a tee pad that the length is 10m (9' 10").
Dale

Dale, not trying to pick on you, but please check your math before installing teepads at Central.
I think 10m is over 30'. Let's not have the reverse of Spinal Tap's Stonehenge stage prop.

[Wookie]

Some of the best tee pads I've played on were in Kansas. They were a short (5ft) but wide trapezoid shape (4ft in the front and 7-8ft in the back). The thing that made them great was that each box had railroad ties a few feet around the concrete on the front and sides filled with crushed rock. This allowed for good drainage and grade correction. You could land a small plane on the Ant Farms pads, I sure do miss that course

That's a great idea, I was thinking along the same lines but without the railroad ties but hey, if you got the materials it would look fantastic.

[Funky Bobby J]

I also have played on some round pads at Fountain Hills (I think) in Arizona. It was weird at first, but I kind of liked them (not suggesting that). Yeah if we could do anything close to the Ant Farm pads - that would be key. I like the idea too that they do not all have to be runways; for shorter holes, they could be a little shorter. We definitely need quality pads out there.

Good input from the gallery.

[Dale H]

Grease,

Thanks, you are correct, the PDGA stated in absence of tee pad the teeing area length should be 3 meters and not 10 meters in my post above.

Dale

[Davekenney]

Dale, I like the idea of a 10 meter pad... For the white tee's, we've be half way there before we had to let go of the wraith.

[downtownXXking]

i really enjoyed the tee pads down at the IDGC in appling. they were trapezoidal and nice and long. that rail road tie idea is an awesome. if need be, we can create buffer zones by the tee pads to prevent the runoff of mud, water, etc.

if run up is an issue, why don't we just make the tee pads long enough to where even the biggest run up can be started on the tee pad?

[Dale H]

Um, Dave, that would be 10 meters behind the white tee line.... In seriousness, I would like to see us develop a long term strategy for tees, holes, and general beautification of the couse. Draw up a planning budget, get things prioritized, and start knocking them out.

[Can't Hit Open Putts]

When I worked for Dekalb Co. we had gotten Free railroad ties for a garden project from CSX. Might be worth looking into.

[Corndawg13]

My parents have 7 or 8 railroad ties in their backyard they have not wanted for years. If we get them, we can use them I am sure. I am going over there tonight and can double check on that. Just a thought!

[Dale H]

Thanks for the cross tie recommendations, as noted earlier in the post, we are just floating some ideas at this point. A plan will have to be developed and reviewed with Parks and Rec to gain their approval. I believe that Bob J and Dave K are the official liaisons to parks and rec, I will rattle their cages in a few weeks to start putting together a long term plan. Thanks to all for their thought on this topic.

Dale

[walrus]

Keep the pads natural. Course are constantly changing, why lock in place the teepads?

[Dale H]

The main reason for a more permanent type of tee pad is to improve or extend play:
- Improve Play -- a more firm and level teeing surface allows better footing -> better weight transfer -> more power and possibly better disc flight
- Extend Play -- several of the tee pads at Central are unusable during and soon after rain, some for several days after rain.

Central Park is a mature course, so while there have been minor tee and basket changes, they are few and far between so improved tee pads would be a good investment that would last for several years.

Several of the suggestions are "semi-permanent", that is some of the components can be moved to a new location and reassembled. My post was to collect some ideas, see what others think and help to identify potential improvements to my home course.

Dale

[Funky Bobby J]

Dale is right, the course is mature and many of the pads are getting rutted out. We are way past due for some concrete. I kind of like natural pads when it is dry, but Central requires some sure footing when it is raining. Maybe we can get a set of pads in next year's budget.

[noputtinsavage]

I have built many concrete tee pads. Make them 5' wide at the front, 7'-8' wide at the rear and 10' feet long for Blue, 8' long for red tees.

Use a wire mesh in them for strength. DO NOT trowel the edges (makes them slick) and do a good broom finish.

Railroad ties are not enviromentally friendly, if need be use pressure treated landscape timbers.

Make sure to use a compactor on the base of your form to compact the soil, and lay a 2" "Crusher Run" compacted base before pouring concrete. You can get away with a 3" pour. There is a concrete plant in Cumming by the quarry, and they may give you the leftovers if they have it, but forms must be ready to go and help needs to be a phone call away.

Just my .02 cents.

[SlingShot]

Recently set teepads at McCurry Park. We started off with 10' length and it felt a bit short. An average length stride is about 3' so with a 3 step runup (i.e. X Step) it leaves only 1' of extra space (6" from back and 6" from front). We poured 6 of this size and then changed to 5'x12' which is much more comfortable. I would reccomend 12' long. IMO

[Dale H]

Savage and Slingshot,

Thanks for the input on this thread....tee pads are still on my mind for CP. I recently played Paul B Johnson State Park in Mississippi and they had well constructed 12' pads on some of the holes...4' fronts and 8' backs, well suited to righties/lefties, hysers/anhysers, the longer length really helps for us lanky types. Similar pads on a course in Panama City were also nice.

Do you guys have an average price per pad? I am assuming that we could do all labor (building forms, grading the base, pouring, leveling, finishing, etc.)...

One of our issues is to prioritize which pads first...generally we would start on pads most in need of improvement, but then we get to discussion of Red, Blue, White, Gold, etc. One of my goals is to work with Dave, Parks & Rec (via Dave K), Bobby (Funky), Booby (Corn), Keith J and Others to develop 1) an estimated cost per pad, 2) prioritized tee pad improvement list (likely combo of reds and blues).

Once in-hand we can see what budget if any Park and Recs can provide, gain necessary approval, and start knocking out the list. With construction starting on the new gym, it might be a good time to see if we can neighbor with the contractors to get some crete at a righteous price....Of course this activity would have to be timed so as not to interrupt tournaments (just in case Keith or Rand read this thread).

Dale

[Corndawg13]

Gotta love the common "Booby" typo. Haha, love it!

I wish we would get active for pads here, EVERYONE wants them. I think Red should be first, Blue next, I think White pads can be the best of the current pads we have now and I am not sure we have enough actual Gold pads to make cement neccessairy there. Most are just current red or blue pad to the next basket.

I would love to see nearly all of the open holes blue pads moved to dirrefernt locations and a few red pads moved as well.

I think we need to schedule a meeting reguarding the future of the course and where we want to take it.

[Redan Randy]

Gotta love the common "Booby" typo. Haha, love it!

Hey Dale, i thought we agreed on "Corndawng13"!!

[Ghostinthemachine]

12' long trapezoid concrete teepad with brushed surface!

Man, I like the sound of that! I like the edges rolled with a trowel. Saw a player trip on a new pad at Lake Ohmstead in Augusta, and the sharp edge tore him up BAD!

[Dale H]

For the record Bobby Corn ...Bobby is one of our recent converts who has already proved his worth in terms of being active, opinionated, and more importantly showing up when there is real work to do on the course.

[Corndawg13]

Thanks!