what's the point of having a bag tag??.......

[djester]

I am wondering why we even have these?? It's nothing against David or the idea of the tags.... but more along the lines of people not wanting to play for them at the local action or even at most tournaments. Out of the last 4 times I've been at action, once we tossed in the tags.... and the other times people didn't want to, or didn't have their tags.
I know that it is getting close to the end of the *Tag* season and I think that it's B.S. that people hold thier tags for chances of being in the top percentages and getting the *pass* on to the last rounds played at the matches.
I don't understand why it happens, but it does.
I'm out of the bag tag deal.... anyone that wants No. 12 (Pro) can have it. Ya'll have fun next weekend..... that what this whole bag tag was about right???, not the money??

[Jay]

The number one tag didn't even show up (Ams, not sure about pro) at last years Match Play finals......

10 Am tags went in on the Cold Snake Classic which was a good count.

[jritger]

i dont think the top 10 were there for last year's final

[Wookie]

I know the reason that the number 1 didn't show up last year was because they had an event at the Crucible and a lot of folks went to that instead. I also know that the AM's usually have a good turnout when we throw our tags in at tournaments.

It's a just for fun thing mainly for folks to use to play other people in casual rounds. Me and the crew I play with on the weekends usually play for tags most of the time. I did it so that folks could have friendly competition outside of tournament play so that you can practice under a little pressure from your friends and your not just out there throwing all the time. The tournaments have never generated much in action and I would have thought more folks would be up for individual challenges at the tournaments instead of throwing them in together at the beginning every time. That's what I had in mind when I started this. Nobody uses the individual challenges at all during tournaments. You don't have to throw them in EVERY time.

I guess the Atlanta golfers are just too cool to have some friendly competition without having money on the line. That's another reason why I started it. I can't afford to play doubles more than once in a while and there is a money game all over town any day of the week. I like competition for the sake of trying to best someone else on the course, not take their money every time.

[djester]

I love to use the bag tags and I don't really like to play for money outside of regular action or tournaments. If someone asks me for a challenge, then I do so. I like the idea of the *bag-tag* and think that it sucks to challenge another tag holder and get a "nah" response. It's not about the money, it's about the idea of why we bought the tag in the first place..... to challenge and have bragging rights to the highest tag Pro/Am.

[jonp]

Just to throw out some possibilities, here is how the St. Louis disc golf club does bag tags...

• Club bag tag is the challenge bag tag - no separate tags.
• One tag to rule them all. No separate pro and am tags.
• Whenever two or more club members play, challenge is on. No excuses.
• In tourneys, automatic challenge just with players on your card. Occasionally they'll do a pre-tourney collection for an "all-hands" challenge.

[Steve Adams]

Just to throw out some possibilities, here is how the St. Louis disc golf club does bag tags...

• Club bag tag is the challenge bag tag - no separate tags.
• One tag to rule them all. No separate pro and am tags.
• Whenever two or more club members play, challenge is on. No excuses.
• In tourneys, automatic challenge just with players on your card. Occasionally they'll do a pre-tourney collection for an "all-hands" challenge.

Jon, Can you explain further what you mean by "Club bag tag is the challenge bag tag - no separate tags"

[Wookie]

They have changed the name of the "club tags" which are the ones we get from the ADGO. Mine are different and that is what confuses some folks. The reason I did mine that way is so folks who are not in the ADGO can still buy them and half the money still goes back to the club. I think it's a little bit much to ask someone to pay a yearly dues to the ADGO and then also buy a tag with half the money going back to the club anyway. It's sort of a way to support the club without actually joining.

The reason I did the Pro and AM originally is so that folks would have a shot at a number one in their respective divisions because there are so many golfers in Atlanta. The Pros just don't like the idea for whatever their reasons, I guess it's beneath them to have some friendly fun, or at least that's my take on it as they seem to be all about the money, sanctioned or unsanctioned.

These are the ideas I was trying to incorporate but they seem very hard to enforce because people just don't give a damn about the rules:

# Whenever two or more club members play, challenge is on. No excuses.
# In tourneys, automatic challenge just with players on your card. Occasionally they'll do a pre-tourney collection for an "all-hands" challenge. (or they can challenge someone off their card but they have to settle "on card" challenges first)

[jonp]

STL doesn't have separate club tags and bag tag challenge tags. You get a numbered tag with your yearly club membership renewal. If you join the club, you're in on tag action. Maybe their club dues are higher to include the tag action, don't know about that. Not sure what they do at the end of the year either - I'll find out.

Mandatory challenge would be good. One tag for all seems fine to me. Everyone will still know the lowest numbered am, and lowest numbered am who should be pro (At least as much as they do now). Plus the added thrill of ams taking pros' tags

[Wookie]

I will consider just one tag for next year since the sales for both were down this year and see how that works. The first year it worked really well since we sold out of Pro and sold some of the extras I had and sold out of Am's as well. I guess I didn't do as good a marketing job this year as I did last.

[jonp]

stlouis does their tags just for bragging rights - no money.

[jritger]

i think one tag would be much better -- a lot of the pros get turned off on it b/c there are more ams with tags then pros, meaning less challenge opportunity -- i've heard a few saying they'll get am tags next year

also -- we're going to starting calling the adgo membership tags "member ids" to lessen the confusion

[VERMIN]

One thing about tourney's is that someone has to step up and run the action. I have done it several times for the AM's and it is no big deal. I enjoy it. I collect the tags and even deliever them back to the players. For those who dodge the action when you are there - you should be ashamed of yourself - weak.

At Cold Snake I had more than one Pro asked who was running the action and i advised them I do not know.

So - sometimes if you want to secure a challenge simply run the action. "Ask not what bag tags can do for you, but what you can do for bag tags".

BTW - thanks Wookie. I really like havng the tag program. It makes it fun when I play and beat my friends on the weekends.

also -- we're going to starting calling the adgo membership tags "member ids" to lessen the confusion

Great idea - having two tags can be very hard to manage for some. But then again some people are confused by having to manipulate a light switch.

[maximus]

I like the tags and will buy one again next year. I didn't plan to do nearly as well as I did and end up with a low number the week before the match play. Still not sure that I am going to be able to make match play, but am hoping to be there.

I agree that there should only be ONE set of tags, if there is a tournament where pads are the same for all, throw em in a hat, and if not, then have card by card action amongst yourselves.

Another thought is to maybe have the "year end" match play around mid November to get a better turnout (warmer weather, less holiday commitments), then start selling next years tags as early as December?

Also,

It's sort of a way to support the club without actually joining.

I don't think is such a positive thing for the club even though good intentions were there. If you play in Atlanta and appreciate the things that the ADGO does for the sport, for the cost of a good disc, you can be a member of it, and you get back more than you pay?

Just throwing my thoughts out, kinda like my discs, all over the place.

[mr.disc]

They work well as mini's?

[kade.erp]

[*]Whenever two or more club members play, challenge is on. No excuses.
[*]In tourneys, automatic challenge just with players on your card. Occasionally they'll do a pre-tourney collection for an "all-hands" challenge.[/list]

i like what has been said in these two lines... I have yet to join the bag tag challenge so i am looking from an outsiders view. Wether you bring the tag or not and if you are on a card with bag tag members you are in a challenge and your tag is up for grabs!!! That sounds good to me. Dont the tags attach to the bag? so no excuses for not completing the challenge that day. That means dont take the tag off your bag untill some one wins it! If by circumstance they "forgot" their tag too bad, its still up for grabs! And its thier job for returning the correct tag. I also like the idea of occasionally having "all-in" challenges. Hopefully this would keep people from picking and choosing!

[Wookie]

a lot of the pros get turned off on it b/c there are more ams with tags then pros, meaning less challenge opportunity -- i've heard a few saying they'll get am tags next year

that's such b.s. If ya'll want more pro's to sign up then tell them. I am not catering to you guys just because you can't find someone to play with. That's what all your money games are for all around town. Right? Is it our fault that there are more Am's than Pro's? So now they are going to start bagging down on the tags too? Way to set an example. It is just like saying "well, there are more AM's playing at the Perk tourney's so I am going to play down at a chance to take more away when I win."

I have been thinking a lot about this in the last week or so and I am going to do one set for next year and see how that works out. The only reason I didn't do that to start is because it's an unsanctioned deal that I wanted to be fair to everyone. If we do one set and don't play for money at the end then I can sell them cheaper, donate all the money to the ADGO and the Pros still won't sign up because there is no incentive to challenge anyone except to say you have the number one tag. At least the way I am doing it now the AM's have a shot at seeing who the best AM is and can move up next year. If we do one set at the match play at the end of the year then why would an AM go up against the top tag only to get beat in the first round and the Pro's end up with all the prize money anyway. I know most city's don't play for cash at the end so maybe that's what we need to do, just bragging rights only?

I don't think is such a positive thing for the club even though good intentions were there. If you play in Atlanta and appreciate the things that the ADGO does for the sport, for the cost of a good disc, you can be a member of it, and you get back more than you pay?

The first year of the tags I paid for them myself and I chose to donate the funds to the club because I think they are doing a great thing and it was MY way of giving back to them. This year the club paid for the tags and it didn't turn out as well in the selling department so I am thinking that I will be the one to front the money again so it is not on the club to get rid of them. The reason I say that it's a way to give to the club without actually joining is that I have sold quite a few over the last few years to folks that don't play tournaments at all and some don't even know about the club. I am trying to get more casual golfers involved in a little competition that don't normally play, and this way they are giving to the club but in a different way. Everyone gets to help out or donate in their own way. This is my way.

I am open to all suggestions and I take everything in stride. This is a working process and it can and will evolve so that we will TRY and make everyone happy. That is an impossible task but I am trying none the less. I looked at as many clubs as I could when I set this up and took the best ideas from all of them.

If there is going to only be one set then there will be no throw in action at the tournaments because we all play different tee-pads, so it will be individual challenges or division challenges, unless we all end up playing the same course.

I don't have to be there to run any action. I have always said this and I really appreciate Vern stepping up to run the action for the AM's. I wish more folks would take the step to run something instead of just bitching about how it's ran, just like they do to the Tournament Directors. Anyone can run tag action at any course at any time they want. It's a free flowing thing and you can play with them however you want.

[jonp]

I am going to do one set for next year and see how that works out.

This also makes the tags a way to compare yourself against everyone else. May encourage some folks to change divisions, and cut down on complaints about divisions playing different tees at tourneys. Maybe.

If we do one set at the match play at the end of the year then why would an AM go up against the top tag only to get beat in the first round and the Pro's end up with all the prize money anyway. I know most city's don't play for cash at the end so maybe that's what we need to do, just bragging rights only?

I'm neutral on the money, but bragging rights makes more sense if the tags are included with club membership. Maybe at year-end tags 1-8 could play for half the money, 9-16 for 1/3, 17-DFL for 1/6? Or some such craziness.

you can play with them however you want

I'd like a list of tags Clunck has held so I know when to put on rubber gloves

[Wookie]

if the tags are included with club membership

the tags are from me, I chose to donate the money to the club as a way to help out, I just put the club logo on them to help get the word out, I can take it off and cut the cost down as well and we can sell them cheap and no money will be in the payout and no money will go to the club

[djester]

this topic has changed directions and is about money now...
My main concern was about people not owning up when a challenge is made...

I could care less about the money... that was not my point.... maybe other Pro's care about the money, I don't.

I did tag action at the cold snake tourney and it seemed to do well. I don't challenge only at tournaments or action, I challenge anytime I see/know someone with a tag.
Holding on a tag for the purpose of *moving* into the last rounds of the tag action is b.s. in my own opinion.

I would rather the bag-tag money go to the ADGO anyways... then we could play for the lowest tag number without the *who has the best tag for finals* b.s. that seems to go on.

how this was turned into a money debate I have no idea.....

[Wookie]

Its just a discussion among golfers so we can make everyone happy, sell more tags and get more friendly competition. My opinions are just that.

I am very much open to changing the structure so that we get more folks using them.