Disc Golf Atlanta Disc-cussion

by **keith johnson** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:12 pm

DATE CHANGED to SUN OCT 9th!!!!

We are going to meet at NOON and spend 2-3 hours minimum there. Time was changed at NOON today (OCT 4th) due to weddings scheduled in the afternoon time and they need the parking/people and their own people to be done with the Disc Golf before 3:30PM

You do not need to be there for the entire time if you do not wish, but it is just a rough estimate on how long it will take to play a par 58 (listed) course that winds through an 18 hole ball golf course.

Gate fee is $10 per vehicle. Here is the lowdown on how to use the gate fee from the organizer:
This receipt may be used if taken to any of our dining venues either at LanierWorld (beach and water park) or the at the Lodge and applied towards a purchase of food & beverage (excludes alcohol).

If you wish to go, the location to meet at 11:45ish is the Pine Isle Wellness Center.(near tee 1)

7000 Holiday Rd, Buford, GA 30518-1442 is the address for Mapquesting - once you are at the gate the person can tell you how to get to the wellness centel off Hotel Rd.

Lake Lanier is doing an article on their Disc Golf course that was designed by Innova East Coast on a ball golf course that is used with temp baskets now, and they are looking for people to come play and give thier feedback on the course for any possible changes to the design (if needed) and to see if it is feasible for them to put it in with Permanent baskets in the future to use for Events - or for corporate retreats, weddings, other family functions (reunions, etc.). The course has elevation changes, water and bunkers that can/will come into play on the course according to the host. I have not been there and have only seen the map with an aerial view with the course laid out on paper.

As an added bonus, there maybe an opportunity to be involved with the hosts further with Disc Golf if it becomes something bigger at the complex.

I look forward to seeing it and hope everyone that can will come out and put your feedback in so the possibility for a Permanent Disc Golf Course at one of the area's main attractions seen by hundreds of thousands of people yearly can become a reality!

by **gvan** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:41 pm

Cool. I think I can make it next week.

by **Corndawg13** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:17 pm

I have played golf there a lot and it is beautiful land out there with good elevation and some water. I wonder how a disc golf course could co-exist with the golf course though. Im there keith and can help whenever!!

by **keith johnson** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:02 am

It's NOT on an active Ball golf course at the moment, and it's NOT set up all the time - only for special functions at the moment, but they are looking to make it different.

by **jritger** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:28 am

Keith -- are these the same people that emailed the whole BOD (Emily Hill?) ... is it Lake Lanier Islands? Innova East Design?

Earlier this year I designed a short 18-hole course at Lake Lanier Islands on a currently unused ball golf course. The premise of the course is that it was supposed to be a temporary course used for large corporate team building events ... like 300 people at a time who have never played. So its very short, you'd only use a putter and midrange ... but fun and scenic. Par 56. Upon seeing how heavy the mach lite baskets they ordered were, they cemented them into the ground. The idea is that they had no budget for a permanent / semi-permanent course, but if the temp course was well received they could expand in the future. The whole area the course is on is slated to return to ball golf once the economy picks up anyways.

It sounds like we're talking about the same thing .... if so, I wouldn't get too excited about it.

I'm also surprised to hear they are still moving forward with the article and having the ADGO out there? I spoke to Emily last week and clarified that the course is designed to be for people that have never played vs an attraction that people would pay to use. She was going to re-work the current article and hold off publicizing to the disc golf community right now. Unless they changed their mind?

by **keith johnson** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:00 am

Could be - I'm dealing with the wellness person Misha Ahern.

The map she sent me has a par 57 layout, with 3 holes over 400 feet - she said lengthening and changing was a possible option to make it for permanent usage - she expected for 2-3 years before use for ball golf again, and I told her that it could work WITH ball golf also at the same time as it does on several courses throughout the US if done right. Right now the baskets aren't cemented into the ground according to her - they are dropped in sleeves when needed.

It seems like maybe one doesn't know what the other is doing, or maybe Misha is hoping that with the feedback from several others, maybe it could be worked out to be feasible - either way, I'm just going with what has been told to me and I guess we'll see what happens.

I'm only excited that they seem to be considering Disc Golf as an option on their complex - after seing how golfers respond to pay for play locally the past 6 months, I'll NEVER get excited about any future courses that will be pay to play - I'll just enjoy them and the challenges they bring when I can play them.

On a side note....
Any chance you will come out and play the Event in 2 weeks at NGCT?
The place has changed alot since you last saw it and you won't recognize some holes.

by **jritger** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:27 am

Yep, same course. Good to hear the fabric isn't out all the time and that they didn't end up cementing them in. I'm glad to hear they are looking at lengthening it, the current setup only uses a portion of the available land. I actually haven't played the course, but it should fun, especially for rec/int level ... the land is unbelievably awesome ... just trying to hedge your expectations before anyone drives an hour and gets really exciting expecting a tourney caliber course.

Unfortunately I don't think its the kind of place where BG / DG could work together though....not to say they don't have more land available outside of the golf course area.

On a side note....
Any chance you will come out and play the Event in 2 weeks at NGCT?
The place has changed alot since you last saw it and you won't recognize some holes.

I don't think I"ll be able to make it, really busy right now, but will let you know if I can

by **keith johnson** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:49 am

Thanks for the feedback - I never said nor did anyone ever lead me to believe it was a championship caliber course - she led me to believe that it is something that they would like to explore if feasible for future growth.

I would drive and have driven over an hour lots of times for Disc Golf and opportunities to play, so the least I can do is keep an open mind and see what happens - if nothing else it another course to add to my played list. :mrgreen:

by **Corndawg13** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:53 am

Okay now I know. They closed that ball golf course down a few years ago at Lake Lanier Islands. I'll still go, should be fun and it is still a nice area out there. I originally thought Lanier Golf Club, but it is Lake Lanier Islands.

by **keith johnson** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:47 pm

TOP POST UPDATED WITH NEW INFO as of NOON TODAY (OCT 4th)!

by **jritger** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:25 pm

Here is a map of the course with pars/distances ... the white building near the word "Total" is the wellness center.

https://sites.google.com/site/jritger/Home/LLImap_color.pdf

by **VERMIN** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:29 pm

Will there be a girl in a beer cart? Tee time required?

If you wish to go, the location to meet at 11:45ish is the Pine Isle Wellness Center.(near tee 1)...

I have never been to Lake Lanier Islands. Are there directions/signage to the Wellness Center once we get there? :?:

by **jritger** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:18 pm

Are there directions/signage to the Wellness Center once we get there?

Follow signs to Pine Isle, it's easy to find and way in the back past the waterpark. When you see horses grazing on a golf course, you are there

by **keith johnson** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:32 pm

To answer Vern - Ritger posted while I was away. :mrgreen:

No, No - we need to start at NOON to be done in time,

7000 Holiday Rd, Buford, GA 30518-1442 is the address for Mapquesting - once you are at the gate the person can tell you how to get to the wellness centel off Hotel Rd.

by **VERMIN** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:35 pm

When you see horses grazing on a golf course, you are there

I didn't know lunch was going to be provided.

by **Funky Bobby J** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:08 am

VERMIN wrote:
When you see horses grazing on a golf course, you are there

I didn't know lunch was going to be provided.

Just for horses Vern, not hosses like you...

by **VERMIN** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:20 pm

UGH - just found out I can't make it...Was hoping for a roller frenzy...

Have fun everyone!

by **keith johnson** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:01 am

So far about 20 people have said they were coming.

See you there!

by **gvan** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:50 pm

Conor and I are planning on making it.

by **keith johnson** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:52 pm

Great Gerrit!

PLEASE be sure to give them your name at the gate when you arrive.

Keith

by **keith johnson** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:45 pm

31 people there - 5 families and 5 kids from 12-17 years old and 2 ladies.

There were about 10 people who I had never met before - and it was a cool and windy 2+ hours of fun.

Some feedback was provided and if anyone else who was there would like to post any feedback here it would be appreciated.

The marketing manager had E-mailed me at 12:30 today after being contacted at home saying she was sick since Thursday and apologizing for not being there.

Thanks to everyone who showed up with basically 2 weeks notice and I hope everyone was happy they came out.

The turnout was great with the short time notice and should show the powers that be that Disc golf could and should work with that location in some form.
I can't imagine the beauty of the vistas if the lake wasn't low as in several places the view of the lake from the tee or fairway was nice with the boats sailing in the background.

I'll keep everyone posted after following up with them when time allows after getting some more feedback.

Thanks again to all who showed up!
Keith

by **gvan** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:18 pm

I called the sales office on the way home and told them we had a great time and would support any efforts they have in the future.

BTW, I'm not sure if you were counting him in the 12-17s, but Conor is 18 now.

by **keith johnson** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:16 pm

gvan wrote:BTW, I'm not sure if you were counting him in the 12-17s, but Conor is 18 now.

Yes I was - sorry, and thanks for the call!

by **Corndawg13** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:17 am

I played with Nathan, Cody and Phillip Belt and of course we had a lot of ideas for changes, nothing major. Nathan wrote everything down so me stating it all will be duplicates. Basically we all thought that the potential for a very solid DG course out there is great. In my opinion seeing the ball golf course in the shape it is in and knowing that the zip line is there, I'm not so sure they ball golf course is something that can be brought back to a respectable condition any time soon, if at all.

I'll ask Nathan to either send me the ideas or post it himself.

Essentially most of the stuff was to incorporate the tress and bunkers more, backing up a few tee pads and moving baskets in more technical locations. Also the two holes that are in the same fairway, we thought to put that basket behind the tree line and back the tee pad back to the other side of the fairway for the first hole and then to move, I think, hole 12's basket more to the right.

by **keith johnson** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:13 am

Thanks for responding Bobby - I think we all had those same thoughts and it will be good for them to see that kind of feedback for a variety of players.

I will be talking with them more in the future about the ideas everyone has mentioned / will mention - and will keep everyone updated on this thread here as they are warranted.

Obviously the Zipline was just recently put in (after the course was) so they could make money and utilize the land - and with all the available golf course and surrounding area not being used, there should be no problem in accomplishing putting in a course/courses that do not interfere with anything else.

Thanks for coming out!

by **Funky Bobby J** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:06 am

It was a good beginner's course. If it was for corp outings and such, it was fine except for the 2 baskets on top of each other and some directional signage would be helpful.

I would easily drop 10 bucks to play out there if we could all bring baskets and set up a killer temp course. That place has so much potential. If you utilized the woods and such - it could be a spectacular place to play.

There is no way that I would pay to play the course as it is now. I had a good time, but I just could not see dropping any money and time to play a putter/midrange course. It seemed like a pretty lazy design to me. But for folk who have never played before, probably just fine.

If they are looking for feedback on scoring
My neighbor's son who is 14 and plays every other month or so shot 66, Griffin shot 62, my neighbor who only plays a few times a year shot 57, and I shot 51.

Thanks for the invite - we had a good time.

by **Corndawg13** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:26 am

I think everyone can second FBJ. We should push hard for a solid pro style course, even if it means using those temp baskets but having a great course. The fact that they are willing to see how disc golf works for them works in our favor. I'm fine with natural tee pads and a sweet layout.

I have played ball golf for 25 years and that course needs a TON OF WORK to be a decent ball golf course again.

by **Funky Bobby J** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:45 pm

It would be great if a group could come up with a preliminary championship-calibre design and then bring baskets like what was done at the Perk. Over time, we tweak the layout and finally end up with an awesome course. It took John and company a while to tweak the layout so that it balances flow and hole quality.

There is so much potential out there - especially more utilization of the wooded areas. There is plenty of space for a corporate event type course and a championship-calibre course to co-exist. If Lake Lanier is interested at all in disc golf, this could be a huge feather in the cap of the GA disc golf scene.

by **Corndawg13** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:03 pm

Let's do this FBJ!

by **ClaysSon** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:35 am

I have similar thoughts as everyone else did about the course. It has so much potential to be a great course, but the design definitely needs some tweaking. Obviously the 7 & 11 problem has been identified, but I think with all the land they had at their disposal they could have moved tee pads back into the woods and really made a lot more challenging layout. For example, # 17 teepad could have been moved back into the nearby woods to create a much more challenging gap shot to the open fairway. Loved the opportunity to play at Lanier, and I'll be back whenever they try it again.

by **keith johnson** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:52 am

Please keep in mind (and with all the stuff going on at noon I didn't get to say this to everyone BEFORE we started) that the course layout was NOT set for Disc Golfers -it was designed for corporate retreats of for times when kids or others would be there so they would get a "Disc Golf Experience" - this is why they had asked for feedback on other options - We as Disc Golfers that play alot or play Events know there are better lines in and out of the trees, staying all in ther trees, having plenty of room for a championship course as well as an "executive type" course on the property and these are the things that have been / will be discussed with them going forward while keeping in mind that some things or maybe nothing will happen depending on their needs /budget and ability to minimally maintain the area the course would be on.

If everything that could be done is done, we pretty much all agree that the property lends itself to a place that we would go to play Disc Golf.

Keep the thoughts coming and I'll keep everyone posted as things develop.

Keith

by **Corndawg13** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:47 am

My groups ideas was geared to the players course rather then the beginners course. I think the current course for events is fine except the two holes that intertwine.

The players/championship caliber course is what I think would bring them way more revenue, and thus is what I think whomever keeps in relations with them should definitely push for. As I said the other day, playing with those baskets on natural pads is fine with me for a while if the course is tough and enjoyable. I don't think we should push the entire concrete pads on them hard, mention it sure, but also let them know how farther ahead they are on putting a good course in then other potential locations.

Thanks Keith and Ritger for getting the thoughts rolling and the potential.

by **Discstalker_Dave** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:04 pm

All of the Disc Stalker group pretty much felt there was a huge gap between the potential of the course and what was laid out for us to play. I would say that for Lanier to try to accommodate non-Disc Golfers at corporate outings as the prime directive is the wrong way to approach this as I doubt the course will be used very much at all during corporate outings.

The marketing manager had E-mailed me at 12:30 today after being contacted at home saying she was sick since Thursday and apologizing for not being there.

Sorry, then arrangements should have been made to have someone else there to at least explain what was going on, what the goal was for the outing, etc. The fact that no one showed up, coupled with the last minute changes in the time, just made me think that they were not taking us/it seriously. The topic post on this mentions them doing an article of some sorts on this and that the course was designed by Innova East. I can't imagine that layout was designed by anyone at Innova and you would have thought if an article was being done then someone involved with writing it would have been there to interview those of us who played.

And Keith none of this is a reflection on you, I think think the situation as it played out was disrespectful to both your efforts on and it and to those of us who showed up to participate, even if I was sick as hell I would have insured I contacted you ahead of time and had someone out there in my place...

Dave

by **Corndawg13** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:02 am

Those are very good points Dave, but that fact of the matter is that we only know minor details and don't know who put in the layout for the course and what they were told to do or not to do. We also do not know, it seems anyway, if they person doing the article ever planned to be there or even be there on Sunday.

I'm not at all contrasting your post, just stating that I think we all knew very little, even Keith, about the true plans and guidelines for the project.

by **djester** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:41 pm

The course was set up for BEGINNERS, CORPORATE OUTINGS, & SPECIAL EVENTS.... It was all said in the posts above. :wink:

Innova east had nothing to do with the design.
The owners wanted a pitch & putt course for people that have never played before.

Think of it as a banquet with tons of food.... but you can only stand in one spot, use one hand, & reach for food. :eh:

The people that are in charge over there don't have a clue about disc golf & what it takes to attract seasoned players (that's what I get from all of the confuision).

I really don't think they take the sport seriously at all....

by **keith johnson** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:45 am

djester wrote:The course was set up for BEGINNERS, CORPORATE OUTINGS, & SPECIAL EVENTS.... It was all said in the posts above.

Innova east had nothing to do with the design.
The owners wanted a pitch & putt course for people that have never played before.

Think of it as a banquet with tons of food.... but you can only stand in one spot, use one hand, & reach for food.

The people that are in charge over there don't have a clue about disc golf & what it takes to attract seasoned players (that's what I get from all of the confuision).

I really don't think they take the sport seriously at all....

According to what I was told Innova East helped with the design, but Ritger posted he worked on the design - I can't see Either of them putting 7 and 11 together, but it could have beeen a NGCT thing like the flags got moved and "we just guessed at where they were at" thing - it doesn't work for anyone really in the existing configuration

Either way - hopefully it will work out to a best of both worlds scenario and we'll see what happens going forward.

by **jritger** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:15 am

Innova was never involved, no clue where that came from, design was 100% me in April of this year. They ordered discs from innova, maybe that's where they confused the names. I didn't install it, just built and dropped off the signs and markers, so the baskets likely got placed too close together during the install. I haven't played it aside from laying out the holes and haven't seen the final in the ground layout, so I'm really not sure .... there wasn't an issue with them being too close when I flagged it.

The deal with the course is that they have temporary use of the golf course until the hotel that used to be adjacent to the course gets rebuilt. That was supposed to happen already but has been stalled with the economy. In the meantime, the wellness center has use of the land and is looking for outdoor activities for large corporate groups of 200+ people. The course is geared for beginners and in laying it out I couldn't disturb anything, even 1" baby pine trees, hence the wide open nature of it and not sticking pins/tees in the trees.

IF the course was received well they would consider expanding it to something that attracts disc golfers who would generate revenue by paying gate fees. It certainly has potential to be amazing. But before any more money can be allocated toward that, the existing course that was created on a very tight budget had to be proven by being well received for the corporate events. This is why the course hasn't been advertised anywhere.

Regarding the article and how this whole thing came about, the people writing the article heard from the wellness center that they should write an article about the new attraction at LLI, the disc golf course, in a publicity piece. Two completely separate groups. The article people blind emailed a few of the ADGO BOD people but not the Treasurer address which directs to me, and a month later by the time I heard about it, Keith was already running with it and was in touch with the wellness center person who had setup this event. I spoke with the person writing the article a few weeks ago, explained that the course was a temporary configuration for corporate groups, not a pay-to-play attraction and not something that they should be touting as an attraction in an article as the current course would be poorly received by disc golfers. She completely understood and was going to change/cancel the article. That's why I was surprised they were still having this event ...

by **keith johnson** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:49 am

I don't know the whole backstory - but their first E-mail went out on 8/29 to only Communication, Event and Courses E-mail (don't know who except Barry that those go to) and I didn't see their first E-mail until the 9/15 E-mail at 12:08PM that went to Pres , VP, Sec, Communication & Events - which had the first E-mail copied in it - I responded 17 minutes later and have been working with them ever since. (since John never mentioned it and they never mentioned John - obviously I had no idea what the original concepts were - I was just going by what they have said to me which I have posted in this thread since I started it.

From just 3 of about the 20 E-mail string - designer stuff highlighted in RED:

From: Emily Hill [mailto:emily@accentsouthmedia.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 12:12 PM
To: Stephanie Orr
Cc: Bebe Rogers
Subject: Re: FW: Disc golf article for Lake Lanier magazine

Any word on planning a day for the Disc Golf Atlanta group? Bebe will be writing that article, so I'm including her on this email. Please let us know when that will happen so we can get that article rollin'
Thank youuu!
-Em

On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Stephanie Orr <sorr@llimail.com> wrote:

Hello Keith,

Thank you for your response and interest in working with the Islands to promote the Disc Golf expereince. We have many guests and group events that are anxious to learn more! I am still working out the best dates but I did want to send you the information on the designer below.
I will be back in touch with you soon,

Stephanie
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Nora Greer
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 2:09 PM
To: Stephanie Orr
Subject: RE: Disc golf article for Lake Lanier magazine

Innova Disc Golf
2850 Commerce Drive
RockHill, SC 29730
(800)476-3968

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <keith10444@aol.com>
Date: Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: Disc golf article for Lake Lanier magazine
To: emily@accentsouthmedia.com

Emily,
My name is Keith Johnson.
I'm sorry I hadn't heard about this earlier. I'd love to be able to help you with this idea.
I am also the state coordinator for Georgia for the Professional Disc Golf Association (PDGA) which is the governing body for the sport.
Please give me a day or so to coordinate with others and get some people together to be able to help you out.
What is the drop dead deadline date for the gathering to happen?
Who designed the Disc Golf Course?
I look forward to hearing back from you and I apologize that nothing had happened until this point.

Keith

by **Discstalker_Dave** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:56 pm

Clarity is a wonderful thing, thanks for the info. As I said, lots of potential for sure...

Have to admit on the Innova thing, it struck me that the baskets they had were MACH LITES, that was my first clue that perhaps Innova was not involved:>)

Dave

by **Corndawg13** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:47 pm

To make a long story short......a girl in my wife and I's bible study works events at Lake Lanier Islands and disc golf came up in conversation at dinner. She wants to ask her boss and the original LL reps about reconsidering disc golf on this old run down ball golf course again. All I can say is they will talk about it, it is better then nothing though.

Disc Golf Atlanta Disc-cussion

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