Perkerson Park Charity Classic; PDGA C-Tier 5 Feb 2011

[keith johnson]

4th Annual Charity Tourney (formerly known as the Ice Bowl) @ Perkerson Park on Feb 5th, 2011
PDGA C-Tier

Presented by AceRunners (http://www.acerunners.com)
THIS IS JOHN RITGER'S EVENT - Please direct all inquiries to him!

Registered players list: http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/62856#Open

2 rounds of 18 holes:
*Rec plays short tees both rounds
*Open, Adv & Int divisions play long tees both rounds

4 divisions:
Open -- $55
Advanced -- $45
Intermediate -- $40
Recreational -- $30

Note on entry fees. The increase from last year is just incorporating the side action into the payout ... that's right, there will be an actual (albeit small) payout this year for Open/Adv/Rec. $30 from every player will fund our donation (after expenses are paid)...which is slightly down from $32 last year. The rest of the entry fee will go towards payout -- no added cash. All players will receive players pack with champion disc (info on those coming soon). Gourmet lunch will be provided. Custom trophies for top 3 spots in all divisions.

Tentative Schedule
Check-in: 7:45 - 8:45am
Try to have baskets out by 8:30am
Players Meeting: 9:00am
1st Round Tee-off: ~9:30am
Lunch: 1 hour from last card
2nd Round Tee-off: ~1:30pm
Should be finished by 4:30. Looking for help with scores to expedite payouts, let me know if you can help.


Registration Options Registration is livehttp://www.pdgasignup.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=1293735022
Option 2 = snail mail. I'll only accept this method through January 15th. My addess is: 625 Cameron St, SE Atlanta, GA 30312. Be sure to email or PM me that you've sent the check to give me a heads up.

This has sold out well before the event the last 2 years, so register early. I'm not holding ANY spots (unless you are sponsoring). Firm registration cap of 76 (yes that includes 1 ghost card group).

We need 18+ metal baskets! Basket Signup List here


New for 2011 = long sleeve t-shirts. These will probably cost $15 each and I can custom order the sizes up until a week before the event. PM/email if interested.

*********************

This is an Ice Bowl charitable event. Proceeds this year will be split 50/50 between the Sullivan Center and Friends of Perkerson Park.
The Sullivan Center is a 501(c)(3) organization located 2 blocks from Perkerson Park whose mission is the prevention of homelessness, poverty and economic inequality. The Sullivan Center

Friends of Perkerson Park is a 501(c)(3) organization that protects & improves Perkerson Park. Future projects include erosion control (specifically in the area of holes #1 and #7). Membership is free and for more information, please visit Friends of Perkerson Park group page at http://groups.google.com/group/FriendsofPerkersonPark

We have raised approximately $5,200 in the last 3 years of this event for the Sullivan Center.

**********************

Sponsorship Options:
Cash donations are appreciated and tax deductible as they go straight to the 501(c)(3) charity

Here is a downloadable, emailable PDF flyer for donations
send it to your boss today!

Individual Tee-sign sponsor: $25, whatever you want on a sign + CFR disc
Bronze level sign sponsor: $50+, whatever you want on a sign + business card in players pack + logo in program & t-shirt + CFR disc
Silver level sponsor: $100+, Bronze level + 1/2 page ad in program + Innova t-shirt
Gold level sponsor: $250+, Silver level + full page program ad + dry fit Perkerson polo + set of 3 tourney discs
Title level sponsor: $500+, Gold level + "2011 Atlanta Ice Bowl presented by _____" in all print publications + logo/ad on cover & back of program

[u]CFR Discs
Champion Glo Firebird: $18
Champion Glo Destroyer: $18
Champion Glo Leopard: $18
InnColor Star Roc Plus: $25

[jritger]

More details soon, I officially started planning this today. Changing the date to Saturday Feb 5th so it's not on Superbowl Sunday.

The great news is that the Sullivan Center has two people who are actively going to help with fundraising and putting the word out, so the event will be bigger and better than ever and I'm expecting that we'll end up raising more $$ than in prior years. The goal this year is to raise $5,000 --- so if anyone is interested in making a donation (tax deductible of course) or knows a business that might be, PM me.

This year's donation will be split 50% to the Sullivan Center and 50% to Friends of Perkerson Park, which means 50% goes directly into the park. The top project is fixing the erosion issues on #1 and #7, something everyone can appreciate.

Signup will start January 1st. Details in the next couple of weeks as they firm up. Georgia Tech is going to hold a fundraiser tourney of their own in mid-January, which will be the only chance to play the course pre-Icebowl -- look for a thread on that any day now.

[Rubiks]

Perkerson Park Pandemonium will be Sunday January 9, 2011. This is a fundraiser tournament to benefit the Disc Golf Club at Georgia Tech. Come show your support for the rapidly expanding collegiate disc golf scene.

[jritger]

Details are up in the top post. More coming soon so check back if you are interested.

I will go ahead and start taking registrations via paypal/mail. As noted in the top, no free registration this year and i'll have the online registration up through PDGA site soon. In the past 3 years that Solstice has hosted free registration, you've been able to add a direct extra donation through that site -- now I'm speculating, but i doubt the PDGA site has that capability -- so if you'd like to kick in an extra $10 or $20 donation to the charity, register via mail or Paypal.

Or if you want to donate $25, I'm looking for 18 HOLE SPONSORS. Let me know .... $50 or higher will get your company's logo on a long sleeve t-shirt. And naming rights for the tourney will start at $500. This year's fundraising goal is $5,000 and supports two great causes -- help make it happen.

[keith johnson]

Details are up in the top post. More coming soon so check back if you are interested.

I will go ahead and start taking registrations via paypal/mail. As noted in the top, no free registration this year and i'll have the online registration up through PDGA site soon. In the past 3 years that Solstice has hosted free registration, you've been able to add a direct extra donation through that site -- now I'm speculating, but i doubt the PDGA site has that capability -- so if you'd like to kick in an extra $10 or $20 donation to the charity, register via mail or Paypal.

Or if you want to donate $25, I'm looking for 18 HOLE SPONSORS. Let me know .... $50 or higher will get your company's logo on a long sleeve t-shirt. And naming rights for the tourney will start at $500. This year's fundraising goal is $5,000 and supports two great causes -- help make it happen.

PDGA Signup will let you add any extra things to the registration page - just list them in the proper section when you fill out the form and it can be done with no problems.

See here for one example of things that are added by Events : http://www.pdgasignup.com/Qstore/Qstore ... 1290534470

Keith

[jritger]

OK perfect, didn't think they could do that. Thanks Keith.

[htorbit]

A question out of curiosity and since it is a change from the norm. Why include side action into the entry fee? In my opinion the seperate side action was always one of the great things about the perkerson ice bowl. Can't wait for this tournament it is a must play!

[jritger]

No real reason other than trying something different this year ... and it's already set in stone as the event is registered & approved as is. Thanks for the feedback though, I'll definitely consider reverting back to that in the future.

[TokioJason]

New for 2011 = long sleeve t-shirts. These will probably cost $15 each and I can custom order the sizes up until a week before the event

will these have a logo of perk or anything on it?

[jritger]

Yes. Lofstrand is working on artwork now ... The draft is great just fine tuning. Will have that + Sullivan center logo + friends of perk logo + all sponsor logos. Undecided on the colors yet and input is appreciated.... Not ordering them for a month

[grease]

Get more of the original Brazilian beer rip off flat top Rocs. They will sell like hotcakes.

[billnchristy]

Get more of the original Brazilian beer rip off flat top Rocs. They will sell like hotcakes.

That they will.

[djester]

Or, just sell hotcakes instead.

[jritger]

a few things:

the artwork:



sponsors are rolling in, still looking for more:
Taco Mac
Dad's Garage Theatre
Alan's Auto Transport 770-560-6949
Doc Cheys / Osteria 832
Jamullah Freedom Trading Co

[dandaman]

Winter Fest?
Winter Solstice? <---Tie in with Solstice discs?
Winter bowl?

The 4th annual Atlanta Charity Disc Golf Tournament @ Perkerson Park?

[Woodrow]

Squirrel Quest
...if you know what I mean.

[TomahawkChopper]

Frozen Water Bowl? Icecapade, Atlanta Discs on Ice, Brain Freeze Bowl, Saumen Kar Bowl (meaning man of snow).

[Al 7.0 Olds]

Frost Bowl ... Frozen H2O Bowl ... 32degree Bowl...

[jonp]

Ice Bawl 2011
Wimps. Whiners.

[djester]

"Revenge of the Phoenix"
Early start.
2 rounds of classic long tee's with alternate basket positions (if you wanted to have Ctps for both rounds then no basket changes.)

[jritger]

calling it the Perkerson Park Charity Classic. Online registration up in the next day or two.

[keith johnson]

Changed name on 2011 sanctioned calendar.

[TomahawkChopper]

The Boss let me post some flyers at work for the associates, hopefully some good will come out of it we will see.

[jritger]

Thanks Joey.

Signup is live: http://www.pdgasignup.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=1293735022

[Cha Ching]

Im getting this message when trying to sign up. Last night and this morning...


Note: Online registration for this event will open shortly... awaiting final approval from tournament director.

[jritger]

keith, thought you turned it on yesterday?

[keith johnson]

I just do the mock ups - what you see before - Todd then adds logo's/flyers/ etc that get uploaded from the server that I don't have access to usually within 72 hours. Then he emails you a proof to ok - then he turns it on when the ok is received from the TD.

[jritger]

Update: I'm still waiting on PDGA signup to turn on the registration. I'm assuming it will be turned on soon .... but who knows.

That said I've received about 10 entries through the mail already, so plenty of spots left. That option is live, so if you'd like to register now you can mail a check to:
John Ritger
625 Cameron St, SE
Atlanta, GA 30312

You can also send in $$ for CFR discs, t-shirts or hole sponsorships with the entry:

If you want to get a long-sleeve t-shirt let me know what size within the next 2 weeks as I need lead time on ordering them. They cost $15.

CFR discs will be:
Champion Glo Firebird: $18
Champion Glo Destroyer: $18
Champion Glo Leopard: $18
InnColor Star Roc Plus: $25

[craigd]

Online registration is finally up and running! I'm all signed up and ready to play.

[jritger]

Registered players list: http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/62856#Open

64 spots left

[jritger]

After taking an informal poll I'm revising the CFR order. It will still say Xcaliber and Starfire in the online signup, but just PM me if you are ordering and want something different.

I'll be placing the disc order early next week. If you want specific weights on CFR discs, let me know and I can make it happen ... this is what's available:
CH Glo Leopards: 151-164,165-169, 170-172 or 173-175
CH Glo Firebird (not FL): 165-169, 170-172 or 173-175
CH Glo Destroyer: 165-169, 170-172 or 173-175
Inncolor Roc: Max only, 176-180g.

[keith johnson]

After taking an informal poll I'm revising the CFR order. It will still say Xcaliber and Starfire in the online signup, but just PM me if you are ordering and want something different.

I'll be placing the disc order early next week. If you want specific weights on CFR discs, let me know and I can make it happen ... this is what's available:
CH Glo Leopards: 151-164,165-169, 170-172 or 173-175
CH Glo Firebird (not FL): 165-169, 170-172 or 173-175
CH Glo Destroyer: 165-169, 170-172 or 173-175
Inncolor Roc: Max only, 176-180g.

Discs can be changed on website if you E-Mail Todd John

[jritger]

update: 55 spots left right now ... not counting anyone that signed up since Friday (unknown number, haven't gotten those emails yet). register now if you want in.

Also, a big thank you to new hole sponsors:
Barry Arnson
Chris Rodesney/GT Disc Golf
Brad Orman
Wade Selph

I've got hole sponsorships left to sell; pick one up and snag a sweet CFR disc

[keith johnson]

update: 55 spots left right now ... not counting anyone that signed up since Friday (unknown number, haven't gotten those emails yet). register now if you want in.

Also, a big thank you to new hole sponsors:
Barry Arnson
Chris Rodesney/GT Disc Golf
Brad Orman
Wade Selph

I've got hole sponsorships left to sell; pick one up and snag a sweet CFR disc

You're welcome.

I hope you have Lorelei's hole still open and as soon as I can get out of my subdivision, or Mail people come in - you'll have your money headed to you - was supposed to go out MON.

[jritger]

Of course that hole is still open, was just waiting to hear you wanted it. Thank you Keith.

[jritger]

New sponsor of the day is North Georgia Canopy Tours (http://northgeorgiacanopytours.com/). They'll be donating passes to their zip line facility for the raffle!

More info about this soon, but their property will be the site of a new disc golf course opening in a few months.

[jritger]

52 spots left.

Disc order just placed with Champion Teebird+, Champion Firebird (requested only flat ones!) or DX San Marino Roc for the players packs. I ordered 60 champion discs, which will go to the 1st 60 people who sign up.

[jritger]

Update: 47 spots left (31 spots that will get champion disc).

Still need tee sign sponsors and good metal BASKETS. Only have 7 baskets signed up so far; need 12 more -- post here if you can bring one: http://discgolfatlanta.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3075&p=50007#p50007

Our mail hasn't come in the last week+, so if you have mailed in your entry it should be arriving in the next few days.

[TomahawkChopper]

Im in signed up today> See yall on the 5th.

[jritger]

41 spots left.

Update on Long sleeve shirts -- if you want one, you need to let me know what size by January 24th. I'll have a few extra @ the event, but just a few. They will be in a dark color, have the icebowl logo on the front and sponsor/charity logos on the back

[jritger]

update: 37 spots left.

new sponsors:
half moon outfitters *mystery prize*
and TITLE SPONSOR has been claimed by Acerunners (http://www.acerunners.com)

[jritger]

32 spots left

another big sponsor at the gold level -- matador cantina in kirkwood/glenwood park (my home mexican and where our own Barry A is the mayor). may have a tropical juices refreshment table.

we now have over $1,000 in direct cash donations already raised, so we are on track to beat our best fundraising year yet


discs came in and they are sweet! i'm really kicking myself for not ordering more of the firebirds & teebirds ... i have no extras beyond the first 60, not even personally.

I'm also selling the CFR discs online and have very limited supplies, so if you want something tell me now. the leopards/destroyers feel great, the firebirds are xtra flat.

Discs are:
CFR Glo Leopard $18
CFR Glo Firebird $18
CFR Glo Destroyer $18
Star Rancho Inncolor Roc $25
weights of those are listed above in a prior post

Disc photos:http://imgur.com/a/2PzWY

[jritger]

New sponsor: FitWit is donating a 6-week boot camp session (http://www.fitwit.com/)

And the mystery item from Half Moon Outfitters just arrived, it's a nice North Face Backpack.

We'll have a raffle with $2 tix, buy as many as you want, and its shaping up to have some very good items in it. I'll pick 10 winners, no limit to # of times you can win.

[jritger]

update: 29 spots left .... next 13 get a champion flat firebird or teebird + in the players pack, the final 16 getting DX Roc

one more sponsor is Silver's Delight All Natural Juice & Caribbean Restaurant in East Point, who will have a table setup before Round 1 with natural juices!

[Bomber]

Hey John. This is Phillip Belt. Im playing advanced. I guess, i typed in my wrong PDGA Number and it says im from like California or something. Can you get the PDGA to change my number on the registration list to 40740? Phillip

[jritger]

Hey John. This is Phillip Belt. Im playing advanced. I guess, i typed in my wrong PDGA Number and it says im from like California or something. Can you get the PDGA to change my number on the registration list to 40740? Phillip

fixed

[Bomber]

Thank You Sir.

[jritger]

update: 25 spots left

new sponsor: capitol view neighborhood association

still need 5 baskets

[jritger]

last update for a few days as I'll be out of town until late Tuesday.

21 spots left.

open field is getting big with 16 people !

shawn hales, local dger and glass blower, is making the trophies this year -- he sent me this pic of the work in progress http://imgur.com/W2o8D?full. Top 3 spots in each division will get a trophy, i think this is a 1st place trophy.

Still need 5 metal baskets

[Cha Ching]

Robert Dickens says he will bring a Ching Chainmaster, im working on 2 more...

[keith johnson]

open field is getting big with 16 people !

That's because old guys are trapped.

[arrdee33]

Anyone able to get their hands on some carpet?
Like some 4X6 pieces that could be put down on some of the "slicker" pads for this weekend

Looks like the weather is gonna create some soupy areas

Just wondering, it works great on a local course up here

[MonteMike]

im wanting to go to this tourney but i have no card (credit). what should i do?

[jritger]

Tourney is full. PM me if you want on wait list. I'm stuck in Denver and will update registration when I get back, maybe tomorrow

[jritger]

Players list updated. Nobody on the waiting list yet .... players list shows 74 but there are 76 signed up, so yes it is full.

If anyone can't make it I'll give you a full refund as long as you let me know by midday Friday

Pretty even spread on the divisions, so plenty of competition all around:
Open - 21
Adv - 20
Int - 15
Rec - 20

I don't know for sure yet, but I'm guessing the total amount raised this year is going to be ~$2,500 (best previous is ~$1,800) !

One more thing: this event is sanctioned under the competition endowment program, so the $10 PDGA non-current fee is NOT in effect

[Bootsie]

john you son of a biscuit. put me on the top of the waitlist if you know whats best for you.

[jritger]

john you son of a biscuit. put me on the top of the waitlist if you know whats best for you.

Added on one condition: if you quit (remember it's going to rain 2 inches before and will be wet and muddy), you are 100% banned from ever playing in anything I organize again. No joke.


On another note, does anybody have a hookup on old carpet / carpet scraps that we could use as teepads?? I will pay for it, within reason. PM me if you might know where to get some cheap/free old carpet.

[arrdee33]

sometimes dumpsters behind carpet/flooring stores have carpet scraps theyll give up

or check construction sites.

I'll check with our club up here to see if I can round up some. It really is a big help on muddy tees, just spike it down on the four corners.

the ADGO might spring for the cheap stuff at a home improvement store, just for use/reuse on perkerson tournys.....worth the investment

[craigd]

Out of coincidence, the church down the street from my office is having new carpet installed today. I just shot down there and grabbed 4 rolls of the old stuff. I am guessing they are 4'X12'. I'll check it out when I get home. They told me to come back later as they might have a little more at the end of the day. I will go ahead and trim them to size and I'll be able to get there early Saturday to help put them out. Can anyone bring spikes? By the way, I won't have any way to take them away after the event. Does someone have a truck who can take care of that?

[billnchristy]

I hear carpets are excellent to roll bodies in, maybe they can just be stacked and used...kinda like the need a penny, take a penny dishes at gas stations.

[jritger]

Awesome on getting that and definitely get more if you can.

I've got a truck and can dispose of any junked leftover carpet.

If anybody has good idea for cheap spikes I can reimburse on Saturday if you bring them.

[Bootsie]

cool. probably didn't need to inform everyone on here where you stand on that. Are you putting the pads out the morning off the tourney, so that there not super shule, if its going to rain the night before? Probably a good idea not telling you how to run a tourney or nothing, but i have seen people doing dummer shiat.

[Rubiks]

cool. probably didn't need to inform everyone on here where you stand on that. Are you putting the pads out the morning off the tourney, so that there not super shule, if its going to rain the night before? Probably a good idea not telling you how to run a tourney or nothing, but i have seen people doing dummer shiat.

Bring some carpet and make sure to show up a little before 7:30, then you can make sure that carpet gets put out the morning of.

[craigd]

Well I got home and got the scraps rolled out. We'll literally be rolling out the red carpet at Perkerson! I ended up with 4 rolls, 5' wide and 13'-14' long and 2 rolls, 3' wide and 13' long. I split them in half so we have 14 pads as of now. If the guys are not finished tonight I might be able to get a little more tomorrow. It is a tiny church so there is not much there but maybe enough for all the long pads and a few of the shorts. We'll see.

I had a thought that those yellow plastic tent stakes would be a cheap and very effective "spike" to hold the carpet down. Maybe someone has some laying around? Otherwise, I'll bet Wal-Mart has them cheaper than what metal timber spikes will cost at the Depot.

On a side note. I won't be able to bring my work truck down there Saturday so if anybody is going to be around Kennesaw with a truck on Friday and wants to haul it down to perk that would be great. I can fit it in the ol' mIni van Saturday morning but a truck would be nice. No big deal either way, just throwing it out there.

[billnchristy]

Would big honking nails work?

Oh also, each skillshot has 5 metal spikes, those would work good but they are weak and bend pretty easy so be careful!

[keith johnson]

Players list updated. Pretty even spread on the divisions, so plenty of competition all around:
Open - 21

If you are rated 980 and up maybe as 1/2 of the field is over 975 rated with 1/3 of the field (7 players) being 990 or higher. There are only 4 players rated below 950 and most of the Masters or older guys that always play pro when the division is offered are already playing in ADV.

I think I'm gonna pull a Woody and play in ADV where all the other old guys are to at least have a competitive (to my skill level) field, as we all play the same tees anyways, so I won't miss out on the better layout and can still compare scores.
It will only be my second event playing AM since the change went into effect several years ago and that one was at the CRUCIBLE when I had just come back to playing after tearing my right elbow tendon.

Competitive play for me will be much better going into my tournament season than being on last card in a charity Event will.

[dandaman]

Keith=bagger

[Woodrow]

You have to pay in quarters to pull a "Woody". Make all the lame excuses you want Caveman, but the shame is palpable only if you win.

[dandaman]

Daniel=intermediate bagger=hole12-14 starting point=missing out on the shrimp and meat again because all the other players reach the buffet line before I do=looks like Subway again=Keith is still a bagger, even if he hasn't paid in his quarters.

[Wookie]

Awww, come on Keith, what's wrong with playing on the last card with me? I take that as an insult. Here I am trying to move up to better my game and learn from folks that are better than me and you are dropping down.

[jritger]

is it just me, or is there an awful lot of whining going on here? where is the crying emoticon when we need it??

keith >> advanced, check
woody = on wait list for advanced, check
daniel, we'll save you a shrimp

Wait List update:
Hirsch = in
#1 = Centofanti ... spot offered, waiting to hear
#2 = Boot
#3 = Montemike
#4 = Woody


@ Keith -- can you please bring your scoreport with you?

[djester]

Don't worry Dave! We'll definitely learn something by being on the clean up card.

BTW: the advanced division is looking pretty stacked!
It's all for charity anyways, so why not play in a ritger division?

And.... Woody, you already have a win in a perk advanced division so you're disqualified! (if you make it in)

[arrdee33]

is it just me, or is there an awful lot of whining going on here? where is the crying emoticon when we need it??

keith >> advanced, check
woody = on wait list for advanced, check
daniel, we'll save you a shrimp
Wait List update:
Hirsch = in
#1 = Centofanti ... spot offered, waiting to hear
#2 = Boot
#3 = Montemike
#4 = Woody


@ Keith -- can you please bring your scoreport with you?

Can u save a shrimp for the rest of his card to?.....just in case

[jritger]

Wait list update:

Centofanti has tentatively accepted his spot, so its:

1 - Boot
2 - MonteMike
3 - Woody (for adv)
4 - M Burton

If you are on the wait list, or are not and would like to try to get in, show up by 8:45am and find me. See everyone tomorrow.

[billnchristy]

Have a great tourney everyone!

[jritger]

Results are up. Please double check and let me know if you see anything; these are off the summary cards .... i will and haven't yet double checked against the scorecards.

SSA was ~59 for both rounds on long pads

Thanks to everyone that helped out with the event -- this year was especially challenging given the 2" of rain that stopped falling just before the event, and the carpet teepads really saved the day. I've got ~9 of them drying out right now, if anyone wants them let me know. Thanks especially to Gomez, Moose, Keith, GT Chris & the Tech guys, Josh, the Dickersons, Lofstrand, Shawn, Brad Orman, Chris P, Wade, Barry and everybody else that helped & brought baskets.

[JPZ]

Place -Name --------PDGA# ---Rating--- Rd1---------- Rd2-----------To Par ----Total --------Prize
1 -----Matt Dollar --26045 ----1012----- 51 1067 ---58 1006 -----.-13 ---------109 ----------$120


FREAK



http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/62856#Open

[jritger]

Detailed hole-by-hole round scores: https://sites.google.com/site/jritger/Home/Perkscores-IceBowl2011.xls

[Bootsie]

Finally! running a little slow are we. Its quite all right john I know you have to get back into the swing of things.

[jritger]

And the grand total of $$ raised is ...... $2,221. Up significantly from $1,517 last year and bringing the 4-year total to $7,400+. Thanks to everyone who played & sponsored.

[arrdee33]

Beings the next rating updates had to have submissions by march 8, does that mean this tourny will not be included?
seeing that its still unofficial on the pdga site?

[jritger]

i think it's always unofficial until its been included? submitted mid-Feb.

[arrdee33]

Thanks, I dont know how it works.....it must be a pdga hold up....i just noticed gsss1 was official and was just curious, thanks John