Hotlanta PDGA B-Tier 28/29 Aug 2010

[Jay]

Presented by Shooter Alley........

Just checking in on this to see who the TD is and what course/courses will this be at?
thanks!

Player listing: http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=10715

[Brian Lang]

Some of us are hearing talk that Hotlanta going old school Redan/Lenora. I also see the JPM crew preparing for Briar Valley Horror two months after Hotlanta. Does anyone have the scoop?

[Wookie]

I heard a rumor that Hotlanta might be at Lenora/Alexander.

[richardhead]

I heard a rumor that Hotlanta might be at Lenora/Alexander.

Me too.

[dandaman]

What?!?!

No one's going to cry because of tradition?!?!

Alexander sucks! This tournament should only be played at Redan and Lenora!

Boycot!

Cry!

Whine!

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah....

[dandaman]

All in jest...

[billnchristy]

8 rounds at Village Green is what I heard.

[Brian Lang]

So Hotlanta is going to be the Gwinnett County Open 1.5 ?
Any chance anyone east of Birmingham knows anything but the rumors we have heard between rounds?

[Woodrow]

Could still be a hold on any tourneys at Redan until the pipeline grows in well; probably better that way anyway.

[Redan Randy]

Could still be a hold on any tourneys at Redan until the pipeline grows in well; probably better that way anyway.

[Brian Lang]

Hey Chris.
Care to comment?

[Wookie]

So Hotlanta is going to be the Gwinnett County Open 1.5 ?
Any chance anyone east of Birmingham knows anything but the rumors we have heard between rounds?

Why does it have to be the Gwinnett Open 1.5? Lots of tournaments use the same courses but change the names...

[Brian Lang]

Why does it have to be the Gwinnett Open 1.5? Lots of tournaments use the same courses but change the names...

True.

[$Dollar$]

More info coming this week!!!

[dandaman]

Why does it have to be the Gwinnett Open 1.5? Lots of tournaments use the same courses but change the names...

Yes but this is Hotlanta. Why would it ever be played on any other courses than what was offered originally during it's conception? This is total B/S.

I'm voicing my opinion so that everyone else knows about it.

But I still plan on being there...

[dandaman]

Satirical...except for the playing part.

Lenora is birdie fest and Alexander is fun!

Bring it!

[djester]

How about this idea.... Have "Hotlanta" at two different courses each year and it could showcase the courses around the metro area.

Just a thought

[$Dollar$]

It appears Gwinnett County wants no part of Hotlanta. When told that Hotlanta has been at LP 10 times before, the lady said that it MUST have been done under the table. I don't think that's true, but what do I know.

Hotlanta is still going to happen, finalized plans will be available ASAP.

[billnchristy]

Shocking....not really.

[408man]

It appears Gwinnett County wants no part of Hotlanta. When told that Hotlanta has been at LP 10 times before, the lady said that it MUST have been done under the table.

Yes and no. I cannot speak for every year that it has been run, only the year that I did. Gwinnett would love to have a part of Hotlanta, but the only part they are interested in is their cut of the $$$. Under the table makes it seem shady, but agreements have been made in the past were no money has passed hands at Lenora to allow the tournamnet to happen. Again, Im not speaking for every year, although I do know that there are striking similarities to the agreement throughout other years.

[arrdee33]

What about Redan/Perkerson

[craigd]

I like Arrdee's idea.

[billnchristy]

That would be sweet, what other tournament could you get accosted by two different gangs?

Seriously though, awesome courses if it could happen.

[Rubiks]

Anyone else up to Perkerson/Moseley? I think that'd be a suitable challenge.

[djester]

[Corndawg13]

Redan Randy can entertain them with slide shows of all his pics and we should all be okay for the weekend!

[Bootsie]

how about central? Hahahahahahaahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahhahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahhahhahahahahaha.... i kill myself

[grease]

Anyone else up to Perkerson/Moseley? I think that'd be a suitable challenge.

Ever try playing Perkerson on a weekend? Good luck and thanks for coming.

[Rubiks]

Anyone else up to Perkerson/Moseley? I think that'd be a suitable challenge.

Ever try playing Perkerson on a weekend? Good luck and thanks for coming.

Played a couple weekend tourneys there, and then helped run one myself. Loads of fun. And sometimes I walk my dog there on Saturday afternoons if it's not too hot.

But I was really just naming courses around where I live. I'll leave any selections to people who know what they're doing.

[Woodrow]

....I'll leave any selections to people who know what they're doing.

Unfortunately, that's not the case.

[IMPRESARIO]

Could still be a hold on any tourneys at Redan until the pipeline grows in well; probably better that way anyway.

I dont understand the differece between playing the course on any other day and holding a tournament? The pipeline isn't a factor really is it? Redan is a favorite of the Macon crew and you can count on a lot of players if its apart of Hotlanta. Havent played Lenora but Alexander in August should be the definition of HOTlanta.

[arrdee33]

I agree, the pipeline didn't seem to be a big deal when I played it. of course I never played the course prior to the construction. But it did not get in the way IMO
has the newer "champion 18" layout at Flyboy been discussed as well?
Whos the TD? whats he think about it?

[jritger]

how about wills?

[Woodrow]

how about wills?

btw - I think the moratorium on tourneys at Redan is from Dekalb Co P&R.

[mrpbody33]

Hotlanta at Ridge Ferry!

[richardhead]

I wish!

[grease]

I dont understand the differece between playing the course on any other day and holding a tournament? The pipeline isn't a factor really is it? Redan is a favorite of the Macon crew and you can count on a lot of players if its apart of Hotlanta. Havent played Lenora but Alexander in August should be the definition of HOTlanta.

Hotlanta 2005 was played at Lenora with a huge ditch running through through hole 5. I say we bring Hotalnta back to Redan. The other course should be The Monty!
Proximity wise in all honesty, Moseley and McCurry would work fine. Who's running it anyway?

[Corndawg13]

Flyboy and Deer Lick!!! Close together and should please the masses I would think!!

[Brian Lang]

Jack Mattox and Freedom park with a final six at Gascoigne.

[JPZ]

Heard it was to be @ Flyboy and PP

[djester]

[TomahawkChopper]

I agree with Grease Moseley and Mccurry would be fine . But Moseley and Redan sounds much better. I do think Flyboy should be considered but maybe for next year that way Kelly can get a chance to prepare and let the neighbors know a tournament of that caliber is gonna be in their yards lol. I love Flyboy such a great course and will be a championship course Kelly and Company have done a great job with that course.

[grease]

:? Heard it was to be @ Flyboy and PP

My comments about PP(sorry Rubiks if you misread) were about how normal park traffic there during the weekends would probably not allow for a Sat. and Sun. tournament. As for Flyboy, I agree with Tomahawk, that it's kinda there, but the local rules may need to be changed to conform with PDGA rules i.e. you take your disc back in bounds on the runway hole where it landed versus where it went ob. Plus, it still needs a little tweaking imho, although it kicks butt. Kelly has done a great job and I mean no disrespect. I think White Oak and Deerlick would be good choices also if the back nine at White Oak are ready to play. Either way, who is in charge of this? That may determine where it is actually played. If at all.

[keith johnson]

According to PDGA Tour Event Information Link on the PDGA website - it's pretty easy to find out who any TD who is running a PDGA sanctioned Event.

Hotlanta presented by Shooter Alley
Tournament Information
Sat-Sun, Aug 28-29, 2010
Chris Pierce
Atlanta, GA United States 404-917-4435
Tier: B Tournament Website
Classification: Pro-Am Sanctioned

[grease]

Sorry Professor! I thought since the venue hadn't been determined yet, that it may not be sanctioned at this point. Gosh, I'm so stupid!

[keith johnson]

No you're not, the sanctioning was done months ago - before Chris dropped off the radar screen with a new child and job - the info was posted just to show that it is easy to find for anyone without having to have a few weeks of posts with everyone guessing.

I waited for someone else to come up the post that would have ended the questions while everyone was playing around with courses, but when you asked I was surprised - seeing that having dealt with it as a TD yourself you would know where to find out the answer.

Not meant as an attack - just informative - there are alot of folks reading this board that don't truly know where to find out info - so I help out when no one else does.

[djester]

So, I guess the party is over..... we can't ever have fun.

[keith johnson]

So, I guess the party is over..... we can't ever have fun.

The Event threads should be for Event Information for people searching for Event information - fun is ok, but misinformation is not, especially when I have people PM'ing or E-mailing me questions about stuff posted since I'm the state coordinator. They would like to know what is really going on not knowing who all the "characters" are on the message board - so they take everything at face value.

It's the same when anyone new to the board asks questions about anything - 90% of what is posted is playful crap, but the person asking doesn't know that - keeping the "fun stuff" on the gossip threads and having the Event threads be about the events will make it easier for people to get accurate info in my opinion.

[mrpbody33]

I heard Hotlanta will be played on the Moon this year!

[djester]

can we move this thread to the gossip section ?

[Brian Lang]

[

The Event threads should be for Event Information for people searching for Event information - fun is ok, but misinformation is not, especially when I have people PM'ing or E-mailing me questions about stuff posted since I'm the state coordinator. They would like to know what is really going on not knowing who all the "characters" are on the message board - so they take everything at face value.

It's the same when anyone new to the board asks questions about anything - 90% of what is posted is playful crap, but the person asking doesn't know that - keeping the "fun stuff" on the gossip threads and having the Event threads be about the events will make it easier for people to get accurate info in my opinion.

One of the things that I have always appreciated about the GSSS is that the players always know what is going on. We have all heard the rumors of where Hotlanta will be played and who is going to TD. I suspect until someone posts that they are going to TD the event and what courses they are choosing, the speculation will continue. Building anticipation is not always a bad thing.

From what I understand about this years Hotlanta, the PDGA event information details may be just as misleading as any posts in this Thread. I thought that since Chris is the TD of record for the moment, an update from him would be a good place to start. I did call his phone number on the Solstice site and left a message requesting a call back. Many of us know that someone else has already said they are looking into running the event this year and have already attempted to reserve park dates, so I doubt that calling the TD on the PDGA site get us much information.

[vach]

ok everyone!!! I have some details for HOTLANTA 2010!!!!

Hotlanta will be August 28 and 29 played at Flyboy Aviation and Perkerson Park!!!
I just got Perkerson park reserved today and sent in the Pdga info so online registration should be available in a few days!! Sorry for keeping everyone in the dark so long... I didn’t want to give out any bad information, some of you may have heard that the tournament was going to be somewhere else but had some problems with the county renting the course.... besides these courses are way better anyways!!!

here's the gist of it.....

pro division - $80
am division - $40

Hotlanta this year will be a Pro/Am B* tier event! that's right only pro and am.... Shooter Alley Gentlemen’s Club has sponsored the event for $1000!!! I'm trying to combine the master and open field so that we can get a really great payout!

Ams....I know there are a lot of intermediate players and rec players out there. The am division will cost $40 and you will receive a $40 player pack voucher for Solstice Disc Sports...I'm keeping it two divisions to make it easy on myself and not to mention Flyboy and Perkerson are not exactly beginner friendly courses...If u usually play intermediate, just MOVE UP!! you will get the same voucher amount no matter where you place in the division

The tournament...

Saturday we will play the 27 hole par 100 format at Flyboy 10:00 am start. Kelly has said that all are welcome to camp on his property after the round for a small fee...should be a good time

Sunday we will play two rounds of 18 at Perkerson park. Most likely we will start at 9 am to hopefully avoid any crowds of people that could be in the way..I will need to round up some volunteers that would be able to help set up baskets, spot discs and help watch for locals who could possibly get in the way of play and to keep them from getting hurt. I will also have a basket sign up set up so that we can have all real baskets!!!!!

online sign up should be up and ready to go in just a few days! The field is limited to 72 and I want everyone to know that I am holding 25 spots for pros!! This means there are only 47 online spots available from the start! Sorry ams i know its not "fair"...this may be the only way that I can get a descent pro field tho because they will probably get shut out otherwise...Sign up early!!

Chris Pierce is technically the certified official (td) for this event but I am trying to handle most of it cause he has a lot going on right now and deserves a break from running so many events. All the contact info on the pdga is actually mine. I will do my best to check this message board as often as possible (those that know me know I never use this thing and I hate computers.. but like i said i'll do my best) IF u really neeed to ask something just call me ....jason makarovich 404-917-4435

Once again sorry it took forever for me to get yall any details....I am a pretty inexperienced td so expect things to be a little unorganized...be easy on me! Anyways...Pretty much everything I've said should be correct but anything is subject to change...I'm sure I've left some things out so let the stupid questions and pointless gossip begin

Jason Makarovich
#20793

[TokioJason]

Thanks Jason for running this event im sure it'll be sweet. Flyboy and perk what more could u ask for

[Lofstrand]

so it's NOT on moon?? Bummer, I already booked a flight there.

[billnchristy]

Good thing Flyboy has a runway AND a lake for your capsule to land.

[JPZ]

Heard it was to be @ Flyboy and PP

BELIEVE

What are the words for something that explains a current event as the result of a secret plot by conspirators of almost superhuman power and cunning?

[Woodrow]

I'm trying to combine the master and open field so that we can get a really great payout!.

Please don't make me play Am agin'..

Thanks VocK. Flyboy and Perk, yee ha!

[vach]

that's pretty funny woody....i knew u were going to be the first old guy to say something wish i had called it! If u recall woodrow, the last tournament i ran i convinced u to play open and u made money....just play pro bro

[richardhead]

Address? I have a check filled out and ready to mail. I'll be donating to the Open division. I haven't played Flyboy yet and haven't seen Perkerson since the very first Ice Bowl. This should be fun.

[grease]

Why is Vach speaking for Chris Pierce? As Keith pointed out, the PDGA site has Chris listed as the TD, so it has to be the absolute truth! Vach, shut up and let Chris tell us about his tournament! Go back to Canada!

[millayday]

This is absolutely awesome. My two favorite ATL parks in one tourney. Although I'm happy to play either course on either day, wouldn't it make more sense to have Perkerson on Saturday and Flyboy on Sunday. Put in a long day out at Perk, and then head to Flyboy for some camping. Since its just one round out there and it doesn't start until 10 I think that would make Sunday a little more relaxing, plus the added benefits of being on a private course to finish out (celebratory beverages, strippers, and illegal gambling ). Everyone should be done by 3, leaving plenty of time for shenanigans (driving/putting comps, disc diving, or just getting to actually go home before 7pm after a long tournament, etc). Just food for thought. Like I said, I'm more than happy to play either course on either day, and it's gonna be sweeeeet. Thanks Vach and everyone else involved (Kelly, you're the man!!) for setting this up. I'm sure this one's gonna fill up quick. I actually think I'm gonna head out to Flyboy today and then try to catch Perk singles at 5:30, just to give myself a taste

[keith johnson]

ok everyone!!! I have some details for HOTLANTA 2010!!!!

online sign up should be up and ready to go in just a few days! The field is limited to 72 and I want everyone to know that I am holding 25 spots for pros!! This means there are only 47 online spots available from the start!

Chris Pierce is technically the certified official (td) for this event but I am trying to handle most of it cause he has a lot going on right now and deserves a break from running so many events. All the contact info on the pdga is actually mine.

Once again sorry it took forever for me to get yall any details....I am a pretty inexperienced td so expect things to be a little unorganized...be easy on me! Anyways...Pretty much everything I've said should be correct but anything is subject to change...I'm sure I've left some things out so let the stupid questions and pointless gossip begin

Jason Makarovich
#20793

Thanks for running this Vach!

First stupid questions - How are the pros signing up? Mailing you checks? Handing you cash day of? How do we ask for/get one of the 25 Pro spots?

[djester]

ok everyone!!! I have some details for HOTLANTA 2010!!!!

Hotlanta will be August 28 and 29 played at Flyboy Aviation and Perkerson Park!!!
I just got Perkerson park reserved today and sent in the Pdga info so online registration should be available in a few days!! Sorry for keeping everyone in the dark so long... I didn’t want to give out any bad information, some of you may have heard that the tournament was going to be somewhere else but had some problems with the county renting the course.... besides these courses are way better anyways!!!

here's the gist of it.....

pro division - $80
am division - $40

Hotlanta this year will be a Pro/Am B* tier event! that's right only pro and am.... Shooter Alley Gentlemen’s Club has sponsored the event for $1000!!! I'm trying to combine the master and open field so that we can get a really great payout!

Ams....I know there are a lot of intermediate players and rec players out there. The am division will cost $40 and you will receive a $40 player pack voucher for Solstice Disc Sports...I'm keeping it two divisions to make it easy on myself and not to mention Flyboy and Perkerson are not exactly beginner friendly courses...If u usually play intermediate, just MOVE UP!! you will get the same voucher amount no matter where you place in the division

The tournament...

Saturday we will play the 27 hole par 100 format at Flyboy 10:00 am start. Kelly has said that all are welcome to camp on his property after the round for a small fee...should be a good time

Sunday we will play two rounds of 18 at Perkerson park. Most likely we will start at 9 am to hopefully avoid any crowds of people that could be in the way..I will need to round up some volunteers that would be able to help set up baskets, spot discs and help watch for locals who could possibly get in the way of play and to keep them from getting hurt. I will also have a basket sign up set up so that we can have all real baskets!!!!!

online sign up should be up and ready to go in just a few days! The field is limited to 72 and I want everyone to know that I am holding 25 spots for pros!! This means there are only 47 online spots available from the start! Sorry ams i know its not "fair"...this may be the only way that I can get a descent pro field tho because they will probably get shut out otherwise...Sign up early!!

Chris Pierce is technically the certified official (td) for this event but I am trying to handle most of it cause he has a lot going on right now and deserves a break from running so many events. All the contact info on the pdga is actually mine. I will do my best to check this message board as often as possible (those that know me know I never use this thing and I hate computers.. but like i said i'll do my best) IF u really neeed to ask something just call me ....jason makarovich 404-917-4435

Once again sorry it took forever for me to get yall any details....I am a pretty inexperienced td so expect things to be a little unorganized...be easy on me! Anyways...Pretty much everything I've said should be correct but anything is subject to change...I'm sure I've left some things out so let the stupid questions and pointless gossip begin

Jason Makarovich
#20793

Keith.... if you just read through the posts you'll see that it was posted just a few threads above!
Do I have to do everything for you folks??

geez

[keith johnson]

Thanks for your usual misdirection and lack of answers.

[djester]

you'll go down the street to the first stop sign, make a left
at the next intersection make a left
at the first street, make a left


ok.... now you're back where you started!!

[jritger]

@ Chris -- We tried for Perk Saturday, Flyboy Sunday ... but had to do it in that order because of permit availability @ Perkerson. This actually works out well enough b/c Perk is more centrally located for people heading home Sunday.

[VERMIN]

so it's NOT on moon?? Bummer, I already booked a flight there.

Too crowded there with the dead killer whale and Tom Cruise

[vach]

ok, keith brings up a good point.....

My plan was to recruit as many local pros as I could....So this is what I want to do. If u are a local pro who reads the message board pm me, call me (or i might call u) and I will start a list of pro's on this thread by the end of the day. There will probably be some out of town pros who sign up online, this could protentially take more spots from ams but if we end up having more than 25 pros that would make me very happy ..A week bf regisitraion if there are still reserved spots left (doubt it!) i will open it up for ams.

[Woodrow]

that's pretty funny woody....i knew u were going to be the first old guy to say something wish i had called it!

I felt obligated. You will be lucky to get maybe 3 Masters/Grandmasters to take the bait. But, if you had a Masters division, you're more likely to get at least 10. (...that would not play Advanced.)

[jonp]

Kelly has said that all are welcome to camp on his property after the round for a small fee...should be a good time

Ralph!

I'm trying to combine the master and open field so that we can get a really great payout!

Payout half the field and I'm in

[arrdee33]

anybody up for an AM only tourny

not knocking the TD's decision to "steer" am's away from this one. It is his/there tourny after all

Just a thought since I marked my calendar to be in Atl on this weekend and would still like to play down there. Doesn't look like most of us are gonna get into this one.
Any TD's up for getting one together last minute?

Don't know what you'd call it......maybe AMlanta, we could do 2 rounds @ Redan on Saturday. One round @ ERP "black" tees on Sunday. Early finish, early home

[billnchristy]

Only if you can get strippers too.

[arrdee33]

after party will be at Cheetahs

[djester]

you might get better support if you start another thread, just sayin'


good luck with the AM only tournament.... btw they have one every Saturday at Alexander Park

[vach]

ok just madee some phone calls, already got over twenty five so I'm making it 30 reserved spots....here is the reserved pro list....

1. Jason Makarovich
2. Matt Dollar
3. Brad Hammock
4. Adam Johnson
5. Will Cralle
6. James Blanchard
7. Keith Johnson
8. Jay Phillips
9. Josh Hennley
10. Kevin McCoy
11. John Matlack
12. Quinton Mayben
13. John Ritger
14. Aaron Thomas
15. Leigh Smith
16. Chris Millay
17. Justin Dradge
18. Rob McElreath
19. Raury Seagreen
20. Dave Gaddis
21. Brett Rousseau
22. Rand Eberhard
23. Michael Burton
24. Tim Ellis
25. Josh Childs
26. Clester Hornsby
27. Brian Benton
28. Greg Campbell
29. John Plotky
30. Brad Orman

[Treeman]

Do you need a PDGA number to play Hotlanta?

[djester]

nope... just pay the non-pdga fee ($10 I think)

[dandaman]

So is online signup going to be up and running before the now "30" reserved spots becomes the new "30+ reserved spots"?

[dandaman]

I will post when the online registration is available.

Might be a good idea to formally announce a date and time when online signup is available, instead of just arbitrarily posting online sign up...that way most of the people (who would now be more than 72 intermediate AM's) would have a somewhat fairer shot of signing up. Just a thought.

[Woodrow]

It's not about being fair, don't you see? This ain't Tee-ball.

[gvan]

The PDGA sign-up system isn't set up to provide TDs with a date and time that the online sign-up will be available. If you want to get in, you'll probably just have to check frequently...

[Cha Ching]

Just make it a pro only event, and the ams can come watch?!

[Lofstrand]

Just shoot Vach an email requesting him to save a spot for Pro. Then months from now you can drop out or change fields whenever you want to. GSSS style.

[djester]

Just make it a pro only event, and the ams can come watch?!

Mark are you offering to carry someones bag for them??

[Brian Lang]

Just make it a pro only event, and the ams can come watch?!

Mark are you offering to carry someones bag for them??

Maybe they could follow Mark around Monday through Friday with and carry his playground materials. I suspect the payday would be higher!

[djester]

I've already asked him about that!! he said he doesn't need a helper, less money for him and he can do everything by himself.

[Brian Lang]

I've already asked him about that!! he said he doesn't need a helper, less money for him and he can do everything by himself.

Now that is what I call a PRO!

[Cha Ching]

Just make it a pro only event, and the ams can come watch?!

Mark are you offering to carry someones bag for them??

Count me in , are you playing Jester??

[djester]

yeah man!! The tournament has caused me to re-new my pdga membership

[Cha Ching]

yeah man!! The tournament has caused me to re-new my pdga membership

I suppose i could caddie.... for a small fee!

[Brian Lang]

Will PP and/or FBA be available for practice rounds the Friday before?

[$.fitz]

PM sent Vach.

[jritger]

PP will not, baskets would be stolen if left out from Fri until Sunday. But ... we could likely have the course marked, teepads are already obvious right now, and maps are available

[keith johnson]

PP will not, baskets would be stolen if left out from Fri until Sunday. But ... we could likely have the course marked, teepads are already obvious right now,and maps are available

Which of the 25 configurations of teepads are obvious?

Is the layout map being played at Hotlanta available on ADGO website anywhere that also shows which basket locations will be used?

[jritger]

The map will be ... the version posted in the PP thread is likely very close ... but the TD hasn't decided the layout yet. Do you really need to know which pin locations 2 months ahead of time?? About 14 of 18 holes have obvious teepads right now. Best chance to see PP ahead of time is any Wednesday in the next 2 months.

[keith johnson]

No - I don't NEED to see it at all - I just like giving you a hard time when you make a generic statement about something that has NEVER been the same for anytime Events have been held there by saying "teepads are already obvious right now, and maps are available"

[djester]

stickler

[Ridesbrd]

things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

http://www.pdgasignup.com/Qstore/Qstore ... 1277302552

[keith johnson]

Waiting on Vach's approval - I already let him know it was ready to check earlier this morning - as soon as he gives ok it will be switched on.

Jason Allind - you should know that it isn't good to show the link until it's ready to go live.

[jonp]

Quantity 42? So pros who've talked to Vach should not sign-up online?

[vach]

Correct...If your name is one of the 30 on the list do not sign up online! Online set up will be up today possibly in next hour...

[keith johnson]

Correct...If your name is one of the 30 on the list to not sign up online! Online set up will be up today possibly in next hour...

or NOW! http://www.pdgasignup.com/Qstore/Qstore ... 1277302552

[mrpbody33]

In!

[dandaman]

In as well...shew!

Thanks Vach!

[dandaman]

I can't believe there's still 26 spots left. Flyboy and Perkerson on the same weekend? IMO this thing should be sold out by now.

[Corndawg13]

Damn this is a fantasy tournie for big throwers, but is falls into the time period of football for me where I vanish from the disc golf scene until October or so. You guys have fun, great job TD(s).

Brad Orman playng pro - nice Brad, GOOD LUCK!

[djester]

20 Am spots left!!!!

[D-Wiz]

20 Am spots left!!!!

I think that would be 20 spots left. Let's not give the ams all the credit for filling tournaments...

[djester]

20 Am spots left!!!!

What he said!

[$Dollar$]

For those of you who find that one round of Flyboy isn't enough, I will be running Bring Your Own Partner Hotlanta Doubles on Saturday after round 1. Here are the details for now, but they're subject to change.

What? --- BYOP, Best Shot Dubs.....with a small twist. There is only One Division but I will allow teams of 3 if ALL PLAYERS ON THE TEAM ARE RATED UNDER 920. Any team of 3 will play Best Shot Triples. (Any triples team must play in a group with a dubs team so that we dont have any six packs.)

Where? --- Flyboy! On holes #1-18 (we might play hole 27 instead of the runway hole as hole 18)

When? --- An hour or two after the completion of the first round of Hotlanta

Action?--- For dubs teams- $20 a head/$40 a team. For Trips teams- $15 a head/$45 a team

[Bootsie]

buk buk.....buk buk buuukk buk.....bukk bukk bukk buuuukaaaa

[vach]

8 SPOTS LEFT!!! freak out time!!

(i will update pdga site later tonite, excel is on my roommates computer )

[Ridesbrd]

Vach,

I'm thinking about moving the date of my idgc series, i'm not 100% yet and by the time i am hotlanta may be full. Do you have a date to "release pro spot holds" for the 30 people that haven't paid yet? Just curious if i may be able to sneak in the event a couple of weeks before? Or are you holding these spots until the day of and i would just have to come out there?

Thanks,
JA

[htorbit]

Do you have a date to "release pro spot holds" for the 30 people that haven't paid yet?
Or are you holding these spots until the day of?

Crickets...............

[djester]

ok everyone!!! I have some details for HOTLANTA 2010!!!!

Hotlanta will be August 28 and 29 played at Flyboy Aviation and Perkerson Park!!!
I just got Perkerson park reserved today and sent in the Pdga info so online registration should be available in a few days!! Sorry for keeping everyone in the dark so long... I didn’t want to give out any bad information, some of you may have heard that the tournament was going to be somewhere else but had some problems with the county renting the course.... besides these courses are way better anyways!!!

here's the gist of it.....

pro division - $80
am division - $40

Hotlanta this year will be a Pro/Am B* tier event! that's right only pro and am.... Shooter Alley Gentlemen’s Club has sponsored the event for $1000!!! I'm trying to combine the master and open field so that we can get a really great payout!

Ams....I know there are a lot of intermediate players and rec players out there. The am division will cost $40 and you will receive a $40 player pack voucher for Solstice Disc Sports...I'm keeping it two divisions to make it easy on myself and not to mention Flyboy and Perkerson are not exactly beginner friendly courses...If u usually play intermediate, just MOVE UP!! you will get the same voucher amount no matter where you place in the division

The tournament...

Saturday we will play the 27 hole par 100 format at Flyboy 10:00 am start. Kelly has said that all are welcome to camp on his property after the round for a small fee...should be a good time

Sunday we will play two rounds of 18 at Perkerson park. Most likely we will start at 9 am to hopefully avoid any crowds of people that could be in the way..I will need to round up some volunteers that would be able to help set up baskets, spot discs and help watch for locals who could possibly get in the way of play and to keep them from getting hurt. I will also have a basket sign up set up so that we can have all real baskets!!!!!

online sign up should be up and ready to go in just a few days! The field is limited to 72 and I want everyone to know that I am holding 25 spots for pros!! This means there are only 47 online spots available from the start! Sorry ams i know its not "fair"...this may be the only way that I can get a descent pro field tho because they will probably get shut out otherwise...Sign up early!!

Chris Pierce is technically the certified official (td) for this event but I am trying to handle most of it cause he has a lot going on right now and deserves a break from running so many events. All the contact info on the pdga is actually mine. I will do my best to check this message board as often as possible (those that know me know I never use this thing and I hate computers.. but like i said i'll do my best) IF u really neeed to ask something just call me ....jason makarovich 404-917-4435
Once again sorry it took forever for me to get yall any details....I am a pretty inexperienced td so expect things to be a little unorganized...be easy on me! Anyways...Pretty much everything I've said should be correct but anything is subject to change...I'm sure I've left some things out so let the stupid questions and pointless gossip begin

Jason Makarovich
#20793

for those that may have missed it... in RED

[Ridesbrd]

got your PM thanks.......still trying to figure out what i'm gonna do about my event first.

[htorbit]

Is it going to hurt anything to have the policy regarding the unpaid spots and when they are going to open up to other disc golfers available for everyone to see?

[jritger]

Hotlanta Basket list for Perkerson round >> http://www.discgolfatlanta.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2806

[vach]

ok....so pro's, try to mail me a check or get me the cash by the end of the month. I'm not going to just shut anyone out, but if anyone has a problem getting me a check by the end of the month just call me so I know what's up...

Make the check out to me, Jason Makarovich 1423 Juneau Ct. Tucker, GA 30084 (phone: 404-917-4435)
Also, I'm going to have two wait lists, pro and am

Pro
1. Jesse McMillion
2. Aaron Arthur
3. Slim Pickens

Am
wide open

[millayday]

To everyone who wants some more practice at Flyboy before Hotlanta, I will be running the monthly action on Saturday July 31st. The format will be the usual ($20 pro action with option for $20 more straight to payout and $15 advanced with option for $15 more). Tee off tentatively set for noon. Hope to see a bunch of folks out there.

[vach]

I will be out there...so any pro's playing Hotlanta please bring me a check or cash if you have not paid yet....thanks

[Flutterby]

I need a caddy. Preferably someone that won't talk my ear off or try to give me advice. any takers? Please PM me
Courtney

[djester]

A few folks were talking last night at Perkerson about glow golf at Flyboy during the Hotlanta weekend and were thinking about a Friday night round of glow golf dubs.
Would Kelly let it happen?
Are people camping there Friday night? or would Glow golf be a better idea for Saturday?
Will there be any Friday action at Flyboy? (example: best shot or alternate shot triples, singles, byop dubs, random dubs)

Just wondering since I won't be camping Saturday night.

If camping on Friday night is allowed, whats the fee for a camp spot?

(hope none of this was posted already...)

[atl scott]

Kelly told me if you want to camp just throw an extra $5 in the pay box.

[Fly Boy]

Campers are always welcome at Flyboy! In fact, I've got Orman building 2 shower/restroom facilities onto the back of the country store, as well as a 10X12 rustic cabin which should sleep 3 or 4. There will also soon be a 1963 Airstream Bambi camper parked somewhere on the property. Might possibly rent that too if the price is right. I gotta pay for all of this stuff somehow guys! Hopefully these will all be operational by the time Hotlanta rolls around. $5.00 is the basic tent camping fee. The cabin and Airstream camper will be more...do I have any bids?

Night golfers on Friday....also welcome! Whomever will be running the night golf (usually Chris M.) get with me beforehand. PLEASE guys, help me out, be extra respectful of the neighbors' property at night. You're literally playing through back yards, don't wake up the kids. Also, do me a favor and yank the burnt out glow sticks off the baskets before Hotlanta starts on Saturday.

If you're showing up Friday to play the course, please park up top by the Leeland Cyprus trees (standard event parking as before). Come through the pro shop (the little room on the back of the hangar with the back porch) and sign in, sign a waiver, and pay the course and camping fees (both $5.00) right there. I'll probably be out mowing the course, so - 2 strokes if you can knock me off the tractor with your Destroyer.

I'll probably post some more Hotlanta info here soon. Looking forward to seeing you guys out at my place.
Kelly

[djester]

Thanks Kelly! I'll figure out my schedule soon enough.

I'd pay 15 bucks if the cabin is air conditioned! not sure if I'm staying or not yet though.

[Fly Boy]

Sorry, no AC in the cabin. Its pretty rustic. I might put in a window fan though....beats a tent. Mike Dammes has jumped on the Airstream (if its available for sure). I does have AC!
Kelly

[DGLane]

Is there anyway another Open Woman could sneek in? I know registration is closed, but Rachel is lookin lonely there all by herself on the list. Not sure who to contact with this question, so I figured I would post it on this thread. If its not possible, no worries. I should have made up my mind way earlier anyways.

[grease]

How about midgets? I think we need to concentrate on people who have problems reaching the baskets at this point. We seem to have saturated the board with attention to females and juniors, but no one seems to be concerned with midgets. There seems to be a major and way overlooked absence of midgets in the sport. Can anyone name a midget (other than D-wiz) that plays disc golf? Vach, can you save 5 spots for midgets at Hotlanta? We'll work on albinos after we get a strong midget weekly going. Midgets are usually great to work with because they are so down to earth.

[brad]

Grease, you ain't right, ha ha . Kelly has been buying little brooms from the pigmees in Africa, maybe we should reserve 5- spots for them

[grease]

Grease, you ain't right, ha ha . Kelly has been buying little brooms from the pigmees in Africa, maybe we should reserve 5- spots for them

It would be cool if he brought some pygmies back with him.

[billnchristy]

Did Grease watch a little people marathon last night while polishing off a keg of jack?

[grease]

What makes you think I was drinking? I didn't slur type!

[Fly Boy]

Actually, they're little Bushmen, not Pygmies, my mistake.

[billnchristy]

Actually, they're little Bushmen, not Pygmies, my mistake.

What a coincidence, I am a little bush man myself.

[$Dollar$]

Since people are going to be out there on Friday, and also since some people (myself included) might not want to play another round on Saturday, Doubles can be played either or both days. It just takes a 4some and an entry fee. Also, talk of possible Survival/Elimination Golf action on Saturday evening sounds enticing and less stressful.

For those of you who find that one round of Flyboy isn't enough, I will be running Bring Your Own Partner Hotlanta Doubles on Friday, or Saturday after round 1. Here are the details for now, but they're subject to change.

What? --- BYOP, Best Shot Dubs.....with a small twist. There is only One Division but I will allow teams of 3 if ALL PLAYERS ON THE TEAM ARE RATED UNDER 920. Any team of 3 will play Best Shot Triples. (Any triples team must play in a group with a dubs team so that we dont have any six packs.)

Where? --- Flyboy! On holes #1-18 (we might play hole 27 instead of the runway hole as hole 18)

When? --- Anytime Friday afternoon or after Saturdays round. Any group of 4 can go play whenever they want, but must sign up and pay first. Players can play more than 1 round, but not with the same partner, and the new team must pay a new entry

Action?--- For dubs teams- $20 a head/$40 a team. For Trips teams- $15 a head/$45 a team

Payout will be on Saturday Night, and will be paying 1/3 of the field

[jritger]

We are looking for several non-playing volunteers to help out on Sunday @ Perkerson. Looking for ~5 people to help keep people off the course .... you'll be setup in good spectating areas, and I've got some plastic for you too. PM me if you can help.

[ricker112]

PM sent

[Fly Boy]

I'd like to throw out a HUGE thanks to Brad, Mike, Wade, Rick, Pete and Luke for coming out to pitch in prepping Flyboy Aviation for Hotlanta. Pete and Luke worked on the tee pads, Mike and Rick installed most of the 9 new Discatcher baskets, and Brad Orman's been cutting shule like a madman, building the outdoor restrooms, and assisting everyone with everything! He spent many hours cleaning up the overgrowth on #24, which has greatly transformed the visual experience on this hole. This course requires a huge amount of work to keep it in shape, so any help we get is greatly appreciated. Thanks again guys, I absolutely couldn't do it without you!

Kelly

[Fly Boy]

EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW TO SURVIVE THE FLYBOY PART OF HOTLANTA


Friday campers set up in the designated camping area only. Put your $5 camping fee in the lock box in the Pro Shop.

Dollar is running the Friday activities. Chris is running the night golf. Bring glow sticks.

Lill's Cafe will be open Friday and Saturday so there will be some food available.

My grill is available if you want to cook out Friday night.

Read and heed the laminated Players' Briefing found in the Pro Shop, and elsewhere, prior to stepping onto the course.

Lockers are available for your valuables. Bring your own lock.

The neighbor kids are setting up concession stands around the course. Please support them!

Since this is a Tournament, leave your dog at home this time.

If you have any questions, please give me a buzz at 404-274-0241.

See you at Flyboy!
Kelly

[jritger]

Still looking for a few volunteers to help @ Perkerson on Sunday, PM me if interested!

[atl scott]

Are there official start/players meeting times listed somewhere? Searched to no avail.

[Wookie]

Saturday we will play the 27 hole par 100 format at Flyboy 10:00 am start. Kelly has said that all are welcome to camp on his property after the round for a small fee...should be a good time

Sunday we will play two rounds of 18 at Perkerson park. Most likely we will start at 9 am

just gotta read a little bit more

[keith johnson]

Vach was also entertaining the idea of tee times at Flyboy last week, but said he would post a link to them if he was going that route.

Hopefully Vach will post something soon definitive on one way or the other as the Event is less than 5 days away.

[jritger]

I talked to Vach today ... he said yes there will be tee times and that he is working on them right now; he'll be posting up here as soon as they are ready -- so stay tuned.

[vach]

ok sorry this is just a little late notice but yes we are doing tee times for Saturday at Flyboy. The main benefit to doing this is so that we can have a 30 or 45 minute lunch break after 18, because 27 holes is a lot of golf! (I would have gotten them listed sooner but people keep dropping in and out of the tournament so I wanted to get the final draft finished before I posted it.)

Anyways, below is a link to the pdga site of registered players and it also has everyone's tee time listed. The first card tee's off at 9:00 AM! Ams and all women need to sign in between 7:45 to 8:30 am..... Pro's need to be signed in by 10 am. We will also be taking sign in on Friday (which is preferred!!!) Sign in the sooner the better!

Please continue to check this thread as anything is subject to change..... thanks!

http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=10715

[mrpbody33]

WOOHOO....Tee Times!

[RobertB]

Pro's need to be signed in by 10 am

Do we really need to get there more than 2 hours before our tee time?

[Rubiks]

WOOHOO....Tee Times!

Woohoo, I get to tee off at 9:48 with you, Barry!

[Q Mayben]

is there any where that we can warm up at before we tee off i still havent played flyboy so i dont know what it looks like out there.

[atl scott]

Woohoo tee times are awesome (I won't have to walk to who knows what hole to start!) No love for the other members in your foursome chris???

Vach is it going to be ok to warm up after 9AM if we use the holes not in use?

[$Dollar$]

From what I understand, most of the final 9 will be open for practice until noon I believe.

[Wookie]

wow, this is gonna not be fun, I have to close the BBQ restaurant on Friday night which means I won't get out of there till after 1 AM, it's 1.5 hours to the course and I have the first tee time at 9 am. Great!!! I am sure I will play well on very little sleep and having not ever seen the course or not being able to get much warm-up time in....I guess it could be worse and not playing at all...


I thought the rounds weren't going to start till 10?

[dandaman]

Wookie, Wookie, Wookie. You've got to take the day off before a tournament as well as the days off for the tournament. Being in the biz, you've got to plan for that. Your best bet? Beg and plead with one of the other manager's to see if you can switch shifts. I've had to do it in the past and hopefully it works out for you too.

[dandaman]

Am I the only one that's upset that were NOT playing 4 rounds at Lenora?

[Mike D]

Quick question...

What about those who have signed-up and do not check this (or have access to) board?

Original information was 10:00 am start time. Now tee times are starting 9:00 am, are they going to be notified before Saturday??

Looking forward to this event, see you guys Saturday.

[Wookie]

There is no way in the world I was getting 3 days off, I got lucky to get the two that I did, and it's not really possible to switch because our wonderful GM scheduled me all nights this week so I would have to close/open and that's just not happening either.

Anyone know about any real jobs out there? I am a construction person but at this point I will try anything to get my regular life back...

[Redan Randy]

at this point I will try anything to get my regular life back...

May i suggest?

[djester]

Wookie is gonna do a cartwheel?
Sweet!

[mrpbody33]

No love for the other members in your foursome chris???

Well it looks like the 9:48 group is best damn group to me.

[vach]

I've just sent out emails to all of the players ...If you know someone with a tee time before 10 am please call them and let them know just to be on the safe side, but just about everyone should have been informed.

Also, a few people have dropped out in the last few days...I havent updated the pdga site yet but there are only 66 (?) people registered. There are spots available! if anyone wants to play pm me

One other thing....Sign in will be in the pro shop at Flyboy... No players meeting but we will give you a course directory and info on Flyboy and for Sunday at Perkerson. Due to my inexperience as a tournament director, I forgot to include the $3 pdga fee and course fees into everyones entry fees. Roswell discgolfer Kurt Wagners business "Renewable Renovations and Restorations" has sporsored the Flyboy Course fees for everyone but the rest is coming out of my pocket. I will have a donation bucket at the sign in table. If everyone could throw $5 in the bucket that would cover most of the costs....We will also have an eagle/ace fund at the sign in table, and we will be taking lunch money/orders for both days.

[jritger]

Still in need of 1-2 people to help with crowd control @ Perk -- free discs for anyone helping -- and a prime view of the action of #1-4 !

[$Dollar$]

Anyone playing Flyboy tomorrow please remember to pay the $5 course fee in the pro shop!

[grease]

Still in need of 1-2 people to help with crowd control @ Perk -- free discs for anyone helping -- and a prime view of the action of #1-4 !

Sounds like you needed them last night! OUCH!

[thiggy]

Does anyone know if Wes will be there with his trailer, or another retail op? I need to replace a few disc but getting to the store will be tough before the tourney.

[grease]

I don't think Wes will be there, but myself and Discd Caddie will be there.

[thiggy]

Rad!! Then you'll get some of my money.

[$Dollar$]

Anyone wanting to play doubles tomorrow($40 a team) can tee off between 2:30 and 6. It's just the first 18 holes. There will be an envelope and sign up sheet beside the Course sign in and pay box located in the Pro Shop. You must play with another group, no twosomes!

[Fly Boy]

A huge thank you to Pete for coming out and working till dark cutting schule around the lakes at Flyboy yesterday. Pete volunteered, having just worked his ass off on White Oak just last weekend. Also, Brent Heironimus has come out to help me the last two days, cutting schule, placing benches at all the tee pads, and anything else I asked him. Brent signs in for work around noon, but came out early in the morning to help. Neither of these guys is even playing in Hotlanta, they just stepped up and helped out. Those of you who've put on an event like this know the incredible amount of work it takes even on a public course. Flyboy's a huge private course, 27 holes, and guess what, no parks department to mow, clean up, etc. Thanks again guys, much appreciated.
Kelly
'

[jritger]

for anyone wanting to see the Perk layout, here are links to scorecard & teesign maps of each hole showing OB & distances:

scorecard: https://sites.google.com/site/jritger/Home/PerkersonScorecardHotlanta2010.xls

hole maps: https://sites.google.com/site/jritger/Home/Hotlantaholesteesigns.xls

[atl scott]

$40 vouchers and trophy only is shenanigans. Schule.

[atl scott]

ok sorry this is just a little late notice but yes we are doing tee times for Saturday at Flyboy. The main benefit to doing this is so that we can have a 30 or 45 minute lunch break after 18, because 27 holes is a lot of golf! (I would have gotten them listed sooner but people keep dropping in and out of the tournament so I wanted to get the final draft finished before I posted it.)

Anyways, below is a link to the pdga site of registered players and it also has everyone's tee time listed. The first card tee's off at 9:00 AM! Ams and all women need to sign in between 7:45 to 8:30 am..... Pro's need to be signed in by 10 am. We will also be taking sign in on Friday (which is preferred!!!) Sign in the sooner the better!

Please continue to check this thread as anything is subject to change..... thanks!

http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=10715

9AM at perkerson? Not really officially posted anywhere so just wondering...

[Wookie]

are you being serious about needing more voucher money? do you really need more plastic at this point?

Players meeting at 9 am and tee off to follow right after.

[billnchristy]

What would be awesome is if some of you guys would donate your voucher money to Craigs kids league and buy a bunch of lightweight and midweight plastic for them.

It would help out a bunch and they would not have to charge then.

They have had 20 and 19 kids each month so far...these are the people that you are going to get your voucher or cash money from in the next 5-6 years so keeping them going is a wise idea.

Think about it.

[atl scott]

I am willing to donate some but already bought my plastic as we are only playing for trophies apparently. If we only get a voucher for our entry value why not make it $10 to play AM and let us play for trophy?

[grease]

....and if you could all get small rimmed discs like Cobras or Stingrays for the midget league that's hopefully starting up, that'd be great.

[billnchristy]

Silly Grease, thats what minis are for...

[Wookie]

why not just move up and play for cash?

This attitude is one of the reasons I am after this event, even though my 908 rating says I probably shouldn't, at least the Open guys know what they are playing for and why.

[Fly Boy]

THANKS FROM KELLY, WAYNE, AND LILLIAN

For everyone who came out to Flyboy on Friday and Saturday, thank you all for supporting the course with your donations, supporting my Mom's little cafe, and purchasing from the neighbor kids' concession stands. Vach's hard work paid off and I thought the event went smooth as silk. The course prep never would have gotten done without the help of a few hard-core buddies who spent days out here making the place look good.....Brad O, Mike D, Pete M, Brent H, Brad M, Marc C, and Mason....I can't thank you guys enough. Save a few cigarrette butts, litter was minimal around the course, and the neighbors truly enjoyed the interaction with the golfers. Hotlanta 2010 proved we can handle a full-blown PDGA sanctioned event at Flyboy, so the sky's the limit from here.

I know that many of you lost some of your best soldiers on the battlefields of Flyboy. Orman, Meier, and I will launch a massive SAR (search and rescue) effort in the comming days and try to bring most of these troopers back home to you. They'll all go into the lost and found boxes, and I will try to post a list asap, so you can pick them up next time you come out to play the course.

Finally, it's you people who have made Flyboy a great course through your suggestions and insights. Please continue to give me your feedback, especially now while its fresh in your minds. The course will never be perfect, but I promise to continually strive for improvement. My folks and I look forward to seeing you out here in the near future!

Kelly

[Dusty]

Many thanks to all involved in making this a very enjoyable event with a very special thanks to my top 3 motivational therapists: Matt Dollar, Mike Eldridge, & Woody Blackwell. These guys have been instrumental in steering me in the right direction toward a better mental game. There will never be a round completely without frustration at a bad shot, but the quicker you can get a smile on your face and get back to the actual fun of playing the sport, the faster your mental recovery will be and you will make up those lost strokes.

[billnchristy]

Chuck just fixed the ratings on fly boy, it had not been entered as a 27.

Looks like the temp SSA is sitting at just over 91 strokes. equivilent to a round of Alex blues and reds combined.

[Woodrow]

Par is still off by 14 strokes: FB=100, P=61(x2):222

[12StonesScott]

Par is still off by 14 strokes: FB=100, P=61(x2):222

According to Chuck, he used 96 as par for Flyboy, 56 for Perk. Not sure where he got those numbers from.

[jritger]

SSA doesn't work too well on a 27 hole course with big pars .... 20 stroke difference = only 100 rd rating points!?! 92 = 1003 rated and 112 = 903 rated ... I was SSA would be mid 90s. Surprised the SSA is so low @ Perk too, thought it would be more like 57.

[billnchristy]

He said he actually used 56 as par and 97 at Flyboy...mebbe some officials outta contact them or actually put the right info in. Apparently both were put in as 18 holes 54 par.

[Woodrow]

It's getting close now; still one stroke off.

[billnchristy]

:lol: It's getting close now; still one stroke off.

I know that feeling...

[flynn]

great tournament guys, to all involved......flyboy blew my mind...can't wait to schedule an augusta crew overnighter! and perkerson is super sweet, as always! i was wondering if anybody got any good footage of kelly and his neighbor doing strafing runs over the course? i would love to see it, and link it on facebook.....just to taunt my friends who weren't there!

[12StonesScott]

great tournament guys, to all involved......flyboy blew my mind...can't wait to schedule an augusta crew overnighter! and perkerson is super sweet, as always! i was wondering if anybody got any good footage of kelly and his neighbor doing strafing runs over the course? i would love to see it, and link it on facebook.....just to taunt my friends who weren't there!

You mean like this?

[flynn]

yeah, something like that....thanks!

[$Dollar$]

This is just another example of how BAD the PDGA rating system really is. You take the greatest course I've ever played on, and basically punish the ratings bc the par is so high?

Just to be clear, by their system, to get an 1100 rated round someone would have to shoot around a 72????

On the other hand, you can go to courses with no holes over 400ft and no extremely challenging holes and get an 1100 rated round for a 37 or 38.

In 2007 i shot a 42 at Earlewood that was rated 1067. If you put guys with 1030-1040 ratings at EWood they would shoot 42 or better almost every round. To get a 1067 at Flyboy you would have to break into the 70s (something that hasn't been done by Phil, Climo, Feldberg, Jenkins, or Doss.)

This bothers me so much bc this is hands down the best course I've ever played(out of just over 150 courses) and To shoot in the 70s would be the best round of disc golf I've ever played. But to the PDGA it's no different than shooting a 44 at Redan, a 43 at EWood, or a 47 at ERP.

We should start having Southern National events at Flyboy! It will be a killer place for a Southern Nationals Pro Championship or The Southern Nationals Team Cup. Then the players fees it takes to sanction would ACTUALLY goes back to the players in The SNPC (another way the PDGA could grow the Worlds purse by 50-100 Grand, but they won't for some reason, no one seems to know why.)

[billnchristy]

That is pretty hosed.

I also don't like how the course SSA gets lower every year even without changes. I know it is based on shooting but it is basically saying if you started playing 2 years ago your rating will be much higher than someone starting today because the course was magically 2 strokes harder.

I didn't want to go back too far because I understand disc technology changed but there hasn't been HUGE radical changes recently.

Example Meeks park in March in 40 degree freezing rain with no leaves on the trees:
51.95 L
45.95 S

Meeks park in June with huge amounts of foilage and a gorgeous, but hot day:
51 L
44.97 S

[mrpbody33]

It is pretty clear that the current player rating system cannot accommodate anything above a par 72 course. Makes me wonder about some of those events at bigger courses now.

[Ridesbrd]

This is just another example of how BAD the PDGA rating system really is. You take the greatest course I've ever played on, and basically punish the ratings bc the par is so high?

Ratings have nothing to do with par, and these are far from official ratings.

Here is more information on ratings: http://www.pdga.com/ratings

Just to be clear, by their system, to get an 1100 rated round someone would have to shoot around a 72????

Yes on last Saturday that would be the case but this could change as this course is rated more, with different players playing. By my calculations it would be around a 78-79 to shoot 1100 at this current unofficial stage.

This bothers me so much bc this is hands down the best course I've ever played(out of just over 150 courses) and To shoot in the 70s would be the best round of disc golf I've ever played.

You should have to play the best round of your life to get a 1100 rating. But yes large courses can tend to skew results slightly.

We should start having Southern National events at Flyboy! It will be a killer place for a Southern Nationals Pro Championship or The Southern Nationals Team Cup. Then the players fees it takes to sanction would ACTUALLY goes back to the players in The SNPC (another way the PDGA could grow the Worlds purse by 50-100 Grand, but they won't for some reason, no one seems to know why.)

Sounds Great!!! Maybe you should take some initiative and run some events for the community who has GIVEN so much to you. You probably would have to run a couple SN events there first and then make a bid to host and TD the SNPC. The southern national tournament series is run by 100% volunteers, this would be impossible as a worldwide organization (PDGA). Yes i do agree that more money and effort needs to be put forth to grow the PDGA World Championships, this is our premier event every year.

[Ridesbrd]

Also par for fly boy will be off by 2 strokes because the online scoring system isn't set up for 3 digit par, ie. 101. Therefore i had to set it at 99, this will not affect ratings and par is only relative anyways.

[$Dollar$]

Jason,
First off, the PDGA has GIVEN me nothing. I pay for their service at the beginning of every year, and at every tournament.

as for the rating system, I still think it is very off. But it's better than nothing, even if it's just so we can complain about it.

How about a real issue? Why WON'T the PDGA add an extra $1 fee to every tournament entry to go into a fund for Worlds every year?????
There must be some great reason why something like this is never done but so often talked about in the disc golf community.

Our Worlds payout is a joke, and while you can blast me for not doing my part, but the PDGA is the governing body of our sport (and to which we pay yearly dues and fees in every tournament entry) and they have the MOST power to change things for the better. Why isn't something being done?

[Ridesbrd]

You are right, the world's payouts are small and almost not worth playing in the event, this is a shame for sure. It is the PDGA's largest event and i know steps will be taken to improve it, especially with 3 touring Pro's on the BoD.

Right now there are 10,667 amateurs and 3357 "PRO's", should all those AM fees and the $1 from each time they play a tournament go to the PRO WORLDS? I bet a lot of AMs have something to say about that, also the PDGA already gives $10,000 to PRO WORLDS.
There has to be a better way, more marketing of the pro field to bring in large sponsors? Are the top 100 pros are interesting/TV worthy/will sell product? Why should the 13,900 other members pay for the top 100 PRO players to make more money at worlds? Will larger payouts at worlds grow the sport? Maybe take that $1 from everyone and give it to women's/youth initiatives instead? Just discussion questions here, we need to see all sides of this.

I'm not trying to blast you or say that your wrong, because frankly you are 100% right we just need to find the correct way to go about it.

[billnchristy]

Really .50c or a quarter would add up to a lot....we give 50c to them and 50c goes into am worlds/nationals/whatever the usdgc am tourney is going to be.

PDGA keeps the rest to hopefully do something positive with.

How many tournies are there a year? I am going to guess at least 1000?

If your average attendance is 40 then 50c would add 20k to the purse.

[grease]

Don't forget about the midgets! Help them out too!

[billnchristy]

That's what the MDGA is for.

[$Dollar$]

*

[$Dollar$]

Right now there are 10,667 amateurs and 3357 "PRO's", should all those AM fees and the $1 from each time they play a tournament go to the PRO WORLDS? I bet a lot of AMs have something to say about that, also the PDGA already gives $10,000 to PRO WORLDS.
There has to be a better way, more marketing of the pro field to bring in large sponsors? Are the top 100 pros are interesting/TV worthy/will sell product? Why should the 13,900 other members pay for the top 100 PRO players to make more money at worlds? Will larger payouts at worlds grow the sport? Maybe take that $1 from everyone and give it to women's/youth initiatives instead? Just discussion questions here, we need to see all sides of this.

I'm not trying to blast you or say that your wrong, because frankly you are 100% right we just need to find the correct way to go about it.

I thought it was the PROFESSIONAL Disc Golf Association. And YES, I do think that the other 13,900 should pay $1 extra at each event to help boost the Pro Worlds payout....as I originally stated. Why wouldn't everyone want to donate $1 of their entry to help Pro worlds?

Even if the PDGA just made it an OPTION for TDs to charge an extra dollar to go straight into a bank account for Worlds, it would make a huge difference. If the PDGA is afraid to take the blame for an extra buck, let any TD take the "blame" for having their tourny help out Pro Worlds.

[12StonesScott]

Preparing for thread meiosis in 3, 2, 1 . . .

[grease]

All I have to say about Hotlanta 2010 is "Kharma is a bitch"! Thanks for putting everyone involved in running this tournament in a bind! You know who you are and I have no trust or respect for you anymore! I hope the $90 lie was worth it! Teach your children well!

[408man]

I typed out a response to this, and I thought I hit submit, but I cant find it. Maybe a moderator can find it and repost it for me since Im such a nice guy.

[Wookie]

huh??

What you talkin' 'bout Willis?

[djester]

All I have to say about Hotlanta 2010 is "Kharma is a bitch"! Thanks for putting everyone involved in running this tournament in a bind! You know who you are and I have no trust or respect for you anymore! I hope the $90 lie was worth it! Teach your children well!

Check and totally agree with that comment.

[Carl Wms]

What's all this about Hotlanta not being at Redan this year?
Am I late?
What time is the players meeting?

[grease]

I typed out a response to this, and I thought I hit submit, but I cant find it. Maybe a moderator can find it and repost it for me since Im such a nice guy.

Okay, I finally get it! Good one, but not funny, considering!

[grease]

[Can't Hit Open Putts]

BTW, I am starting to dislike midgets!

Never get in a fight with one, THEY BITE! And you know how tall a midget is?!?!

Somebody queue up Randy Newman.

oh and....... wait for it...........

[12StonesScott]

I thought it was the PROFESSIONAL Disc Golf Association. And YES, I do think that the other 13,900 should pay $1 extra at each event to help boost the Pro Worlds payout....as I originally stated. Why wouldn't everyone want to donate $1 of their entry to help Pro worlds?

We all know, though, that the word "professional" in the organization name is more a historical accident than a deliberate description of the current goals of the organization -- Steady Ed had already called his company DGA, and when the functions of a governing body for the sport were spun off from that, it was to a very small group that comprised pretty much all of the serious players in the world, all of whom were competing for cash prizes. That organization grew beyond that hard core of the most serious players and took on two different functions that are handled by separate organizations in many other sports:

1. managing professional competitive events, and
2. promoting and encouraging the growth and development of the sport, including amateur competition
   

In ball golf, the PGA performs the first function, the USGA the second. In bowling, there's the PBA (pro) and USBC (amateur). We have one organization for both. If you really would like to divorce pro disc golf from the am players, you should probably consider which is more likely to remain viable without the other. I say that with no animosity toward the pros at all -- I just believe that if the PGDA changed its name to the "World Disc Golf Association" or something similar and left the pros to manage their own events and affairs independently, it would be better able to survive than whatever the pros came up with. As the numbers show, there's a lot bigger base to work with on the am side.

As for why ams wouldn't want to pay an extra $1 to increase the Pro Worlds payout, surely you've seen the bitching and moaning that comes up in any thread here whenever any incremental cost for tournament entry is mentioned -- paying a service charge for online tournament registration, etc. -- and how no one ever believes that they're getting their money's worth out of their entry fees. Thinking that am players are going to stampede to fling around $1 bills for the pros like an 18-year-old with a fake ID at the Pink Pony seems, well, a bit optimistic.

Even if the PDGA just made it an OPTION for TDs to charge an extra dollar to go straight into a bank account for Worlds, it would make a huge difference. If the PDGA is afraid to take the blame for an extra buck, let any TD take the "blame" for having their tourny help out Pro Worlds.

Sounds reasonable to me. But as Jason pointed out, you could make the same argument about a lot of other worthy causes -- investing in marketing, promotional, or educational efforts to grow the sport, paying officials and other tournament staff at major events, whatever.

To be clear -- I'm all for the pros getting bigger payouts at every event -- Pro Worlds, USDGC, the Lower Bongwater Classic, whatever. I'd probably add the buck to my tournament entry fees. I already buy a fair number of CFR discs and kick in for sponsorships most of the time when I play events -- and sometimes even if I don't play. I've never played the Atlanta Open, but I've sponsored at least one tee sign, and usually two, for the last three years, just to name one event -- and sometimes I've kicked in more than that. But a lot of am players have to be more careful about where their money goes, and to suggest that they should all be equally happy to shell out more to increase the purses of the handful of pros who stand to cash at a major event like Pro Worlds comes pretty close to arrogance.

[billnchristy]

Scott said what a lot of us think with much more eloquence and a lot less profanity.

Bravo sir.

[htorbit]

Well said 12StonesScott!!!!!!!

[Can't Hit Open Putts]

Scott said what a lot of us think with much more eloquence and a lot less profanity.

Bravo sir.

Agreed, but he never addressed the midget issue!!

[billnchristy]

If Grease wants to grow...oh maybe thats a bad word to use ...uh...expand the sport for midgets then he should find some professional midget players and get a midget clinic series going...otherwise its all talk.

[djester]

lower bongwater classic?

[12StonesScott]

Agreed, but he never addressed the midget issue!!

Quite so -- whatever's issuing from your midget is between the two of you. No business of mine.

[Sweeney]

Thinking that am players are going to stampede to fling around $1 bills for the pros like an 18-year-old with a fake ID at the Pink Pony seems, well, a bit optimistic.

Scott you must not frequent the Pony very often, it has strict ID policies and the only way a fake ID does work is if one is wearing a pumpkin suit.

[12StonesScott]

Thinking that am players are going to stampede to fling around $1 bills for the pros like an 18-year-old with a fake ID at the Pink Pony seems, well, a bit optimistic.

Scott you must not frequent the Pony very often, it has strict ID policies and the only way a fake ID does work is if one is wearing a pumpkin suit.

Ah. There you have me. My information on the subject (like so many subjects these days -- just ask my kids) is woefully out of date.

[Can't Hit Open Putts]

Agreed, but he never addressed the midget issue!!

Quite so -- whatever's issuing from your midget is between the two of you. No business of mine.

I got that cleared up years ago. The wonders of modern medicine.

Its still burns when I pee sometimes?!?

[$Dollar$]

I honestly wish that there were two different organizations. Pro players are few and far between in a sport where very few people care about getting better. My words are wasted here, just like my time spent reading this board.

[keith johnson]

I typed out a response to this, and I thought I hit submit, but I cant find it. Maybe a moderator can find it and repost it for me since Im such a nice guy.

Searched records and couldn't find it - you'll have to redo word by word from your memory.

[billnchristy]

Plenty of pros...not enough professionals.

[djester]

Please explain that a little more, sir.

[gvan]

I honestly wish that there were two different organizations. Pro players are few and far between in a sport where very few people care about getting better. My words are wasted here, just like my time spent reading this board.

Your words aren't wasted, they contribute to a good discussion. If you disagree with Scott's analysis, it doesn't invalidate your opinion to anyone here.

I'd like to see a breakdown in other sports. How many amateur bowlers are there compared to pros. What's the breakdown like in Tennis, Bolf, Skiing or Snooker? Are there a higher percentage of pros in those sports? I'd bet not.

One point though. You say that you wish there were two different organizations, but want a $1 fee added to all events for a worlds payout. Adding fees to Ams for that purpose would only serve to make Pros MORE dependent on Ams, making a split to two organizations more difficult. I'd think resources would be better spent on overall sport growth so the number of members influences potential sponsors.

I agree that a 1 million dollar top prize would get the attention of media for a top event, but an increase from 20K to 50K would not be likely to generate additional interest.

[Funky Bobby J]

Please explain that a little more, sir.

Generally - Professional Atheletes prepare, train, and comport themselves as ambassadors of the sport - very few of our pros really do this. Many show up to big events looking like they just rolled out of the gutter and showed up for a tee time with a cigarette hanging out of their mouth. Yeah - this sport is going big time any day now. Just sit back and wait for the sponsors to line up.

I think our sport is colorful and fun. Pros are generally helpful and approachable, but this show is no where near ready for the big time, and likely never will be in the near term. I hope you young guys are not hanging on, putting your eggs in this basket waiting for a payday, because it is more likely you'll be driving jalopys and living in your parents basement well into your late 30s with the same complaints that you have now. Ride the wave and enjoy it, but be working on plan B while you do it.

If you think that there may be media there, shower, shave, put on a clean unstained shirt, leave the smokes in the car, lay off the beer and weed that morning (because yeah we can smell it on you) and play some golf. Call it step one to a more fruitful future. There is more to being a professional than the ability to shoot a 1000-rated round.

My 2 cents

[Wookie]

Wow, I have to actually agree with Funk style Bobby on this one.

[billnchristy]

That pretty much summed up my thoughts.

[djester]

You mean I have to shave & shower? Jeez, that's asking a lot.

I think that the pdga should have a collared shirt rule, along with the no smoking aspect. I don't know anyone that drinks a beer in the morning though. Some people will have a left-handed smoke beforehand, and most of the time is will affect their game in a negative way. The same could be said about someone that drinks 7 cups of coffee in the morning.
Look at Nikko, he looks like Sideshow Bob with his haircut. Does that make him unprofessional? He also wears mismatched long socks. Can't he dress himself right?

[djester]

Lets not forget basketball & football professionals, they play the ambassadors of their sports very well, huh?

[billnchristy]

Well, they have their own issues now don't they?

They do have a dress code policy for majors but it doesn't mention giant 'fros.

[12StonesScott]

Lets not forget basketball & football professionals, they play the ambassadors of their sports very well, huh?

Some do, some don't. But they're not trying to grow an obscure niche sport that already has something of an image problem into a viable mainstream media attraction. Those sports are already popular enough with audiences and advertisers to have generated the vast amounts of revenue that make it possible for them to pay both the miscreants and the solid citizens extremely well, and to slough off any public relations problems caused by the bad apples without any real damage. We don't have that luxury.

[$Dollar$]

I agree that a 1 million dollar top prize would get the attention of media for a top event, but an increase from 20K to 50K would not be likely to generate additional interest.

HAHAHA from 20k to 50k? First place at worlds got $5,500 and 10th place got $850.

I would prefer two organizations, but since we have one then I think everyone should pay an extra buck at every event. Professional players do pay more in dues at the beginning of every year. $75 from every pro that stays current, I'm sure the whole 10K they add to worlds is just a percentage of that.

[billnchristy]

What do you think the pro only organization could do that the current one can't?

And why don't you guys form one?

While you are at it make a rating system that works...

And make worlds mean something too, why even have a tour if there is really no tour championship?

The sport is young enough to survive and thrive with a schism.

[JPZ]

As far as smoking goes....in ball golf you can turn on the TV and see people smoking next to the guy hitting the ball all day!!!!
Just watch DALY. He's got sponsors, hes got game hes got the media all over him.
Now at least they remove it from their lips B4 swinging!
Although in my experience not totally necessary-------------------unless the wind is in your face!

[JPZ]

http://www.google.com/images?q=daly%20smoking%20on%20tour&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1419&bih=648

[djester]

What do you think the pro only organization could do that the current one can't?

And why don't you guys form one?

While you are at it make a rating system that works...

And make worlds mean something too, why even have a tour if there is really no tour championship?

The sport is young enough to survive and thrive with a schism.

Bill,
How are we ale to do that when we can't even shower, wear a unstained & wrinkle-free shirt, not drink a beer, not smoke a spliff, and/or shave before a round ?

We're lucky if our jalopy doesn't break down on the way to the tournament, let alone if our mom wakes us up or not on time.


On a serious note: Most "Pro's" in this sport have working jobs and lead busy lives (as do most Am's/other players). What do other professional sports players do?? I doubt that Chipper Jones or Shaq work 9-5 jobs during the week, then play on the weekends in a few games a year. You can't compare the other sports to ours as there is a vast difference between them. Every sport has it's "not-so-Professional" Pro's. Not everyone can be a Boy scout.

Nobody outside of discgolf takes it as serious as we do.... it's just a fact. Most people will laugh at you when you tell them about it or try to explain how it is challenging to play a good round.

[billnchristy]

or Shaq work 9-5 jobs during the week, then play on the weekends in a few games a year.

You obviously have not seen Shaq Vs. on tv.

[djester]

Fortunately, I haven't !

[12StonesScott]

Does everyone really believe that bigger payouts will equal greater spectator/media interest? It seems to me that media interest and higher purses are results of spectator/participant interest, not the cause of it. If it were merely the size of the financial stakes that drove interest, wouldn't we be all be huddling round our TVs to watch hedge fund managers raking in piles of currency, or following the activities of lobbyists angling for a huge bailout or favorable tax treatment for their industries? I just find it hard to believe that people who don't care now whether Eric McCabe or Nikko Locastro walks away with $5,500 from Pro Worlds are going to care any more if it's $55,500 or even $555,000.

Again, the example of traditional golf seems apposite. Does anyone know who the key figure in the founding of the PGA back in 1916 was? According to the PGA's own web site, the impetus came not from any golf pro (of which there were very few at the time, professionalism being considered ungentlemanly and beneath the dignity of the amateurs who were the great players of the time), but from department store magnate Rodman Wanamaker, who believed that an association of professional golfers would help increase sales of golf equipment. Wanamaker provided the trophy and the entire purse ($2,580) for the first PGA Championship held later that year. "Professional Golfers" at the time, and for much of the history of the sport, were mainly course pros and others who made their living primarily from teaching the sport and managing golf facilities. Not until 1968 did the Tournament Players Division become a separate entity within the PGA (in 1975, it reorganized and renamed itself the "PGA Tour").

For nearly 100 years, most golf professionals have been paid primarily not for playing tournaments but for growing the game and managing the facilities where it's played. The more people who play the game, even if only occasionally and casually, the more money there is for the pros in teaching and managing, and the more money there is for the manufacturers in selling equipment, apparel, and accessories, and the more money there is for course operators in memberships, greens fees, and concessions. When they stand to make money from increased interest and participation, they're willing to invest some of their profits in sponsoring players and events in a bid for even more interest and participation.

At best, disc golf is where ball golf was a century ago in all of those areas. And at least some of the appeal of disc golf, for those who do play it, is that it is cheaper to play, both in terms of investment in equipment and in ongoing costs each time you play (greens fees, etc.). Which is all well and good, but it necessarily means that there are only a small number of entities that have a financial stake in seeing it grow, and the resources of those that do exist are fairly limited. According to one recent (2005) estimate, golf accounts for $78 billion dollars in direct revenue in the U.S. alone, with a total financial impact of up to $195 billion. We're an awfully long way from that.

It's probably safe to say, given the total number of individuals who have ever joined the PDGA even for a single year, and the size of the galleries at major events, that more people watch the average mid-major college football team (say, Middle Tennessee State, who typically draw about 16,000 for their home games) on a single Saturday afternoon than have attended all PDGA tournaments ever held as spectators. Disc golf is not a particularly compelling spectator sport, and it doesn't have the inherent emotional connection between competitors and fans that exists between students and alumni who've never donned a set of pads in their lives and the players who put on the colors of their alma mater every weekend.

Until a vastly larger number of people are playing disc golf, until there are facilities that exist wholly or partly to provide venues for it (and that can make money doing so), and until some substantial fraction of the general population has at least some awareness of and interest in it, the funds available to support those who play it at the highest level are going to be pretty paltry. I absolutely think that the Jenkinses, Climos, Feldbergs, Dosses, Arthurs, Stanhopes, Readings, and yes the Dollars and other players a notch below that, deserve to be able to make a solid living from playing and/or teaching disc golf. I just don't agree that it's ever going to happen by shuffling the same small batch of pictures of President Washington around among the miniscule portion of the populace that already has any interest in the sport. That portion of the populace has to be increased dramatically before anything significant's going to change. Which is why I'd rather see those bucks invested in activities that have that aim. It's called leverage -- you take the resources you have and put them to work in ways that are going to cause them to increase, rather than just doling them out to satisfy immediate wants.

[billnchristy]

Thanks Scott, now I have ammo when my teachers try to refuse money for clinics. I will let them know that they are the true professionals of the sport and pioneers for the future.

[$Dollar$]

The mass media might not care if McCabe wins $5,500 or $55,000, but he cares and so should anyone who says they love Disc Golf.

No one with a 9-5 job is winning World Titles in Open. You can bet the world champion of disc golf every single year worked his butt off to get there. And when we have a governing body thats sanctions 1300 tournaments a year and takes dues, it doesn't seem like $5,500 is very much money for dedicating his life to win their World Title. The World Champ of disc golf knew before they handed him a check, that he wasn't going to win much money, but he did it anyway.

Because of this we know that they play because they LOVE disc golf. So even if the mass media doesn't take notice, the entire disc golf world would. People care when money is life-changing opposed the rich getting richer, this is why we still have game shows.

[billnchristy]

Sarah did, but I suppose it doesn't count since shes a chick.

So how can a pro make some money?

Maybe teach others his craft?

Don't say guys won't pay money because there are dozens begging Courtney to do a clinic for men.

No you won't get rich but maybe some of that satisfaction you are missing will come out of it...and maybe you will breed the guy who steps up and competes against you so you can take your game to the next level...that and pocketing $100 for a couple hours of work isn't a bad haul is it?

A lot of you guys love to complain about people just languishing down in the lower ranks and I fully understand where a lot of that is aimed but if you want people to step up you HAVE to do this:

1) Get children into the game young, thanks to CraigD & company this is happening right now...all by themselves...no club support other than a few individuals stepping up...as usual.

2) Have some sort of way to get to that next level...yeah I know, everyone up there right now didn't have a daddy to hold their hand but guess what...the current generations ain't the same as ours.

If I wanted to learn how to play tennis I could take lessons, if I wanted to learn how to hit a golf ball I could get lessons...hell, I can get lessons on how to freaking pole dance but if I wanted someone to show me how to take my disc golf game to another level the answer is to go donate at doubles and pray you get someone worth a damn that MIGHT be willing to give you pointers....ain't cutting it.

[408man]

Scott, fantastic post. I really liked the point about the money that is being played for. No matter how the money seems to be raised now, CFR's, hole sponsors, or even Dollar's idea of a dollar a player from tournaments, it all is the same thing, it is our money that we are playing for.

Not only are we trying to grow a small sport, we are also trying to grow one that already has an image which is not so savory. We just need to know that no matter how many people we have doing great things for the advancement of this sport, how much money is raised for events, how great we may look or act in tournamnets, there will always be that cold hand on our sport's shoulder that reaches up and drags us all back. Like a gift from the "make a point" gods we have some idiot doing something like this: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2904
One step forward, two steps back. Thanks man, we all appretiate it.

You know, there was a time when if you tried to post a swear word, the powers that be would rip it down off this board asap. Now, you can go ahead and promote drug use in a tournament name. Nice. Well, guess I'll be running the Spoon and Needle Brownstone open next summer...thats cool right?

There are lots of reasons why this sport still isnt where we would like it to be, and I wont say that is the only one. But, if you get a chance, shake that moron's hand and thank him for doing his part to make sure is is more difficult for us to get to where we want to be. Also, thank the moderators of this message board for not thinking that it may not be a good idea to have that posted at all, regardless of what forum it is in.

Also: coming next summer: Georgia's Lavish Lines on the Mirror Series!!!!!! - thats ok, right?

[djester]

The guy doesn't even smoke. Maybe he picked the worst time for the start time, but calling him out like that shows your own mentality and acting like a child doesn't help either.

[atl scott]

The guy doesn't even smoke. Maybe he picked the worst time for the start time, but calling him out like that shows your own mentality and acting like a child doesn't help either.

[mrpbody33]

You know, there was a time when if you tried to post a swear word, the powers that be would rip it down off this board asap. Now, you can go ahead and promote drug use in a tournament name. Nice. Well, guess I'll be running the Spoon and Needle Brownstone open next summer...thats cool right?

Word censoring was removed because people always find an inventive way to get around that. Also 4:20 refers to the time that the action will begin and not actual drug use. You aren't even permitted to bring alcohol in that park.

[408man]

The guy doesn't even smoke. Maybe he picked the worst time for the start time, but calling him out like that shows your own mentality and acting like a child doesn't help either.

Acting like a child is the one damn thing Im good at. Dont take that away from me.

[408man]

You know, there was a time when if you tried to post a swear word, the powers that be would rip it down off this board asap. Now, you can go ahead and promote drug use in a tournament name. Nice. Well, guess I'll be running the Spoon and Needle Brownstone open next summer...thats cool right?

Word censoring was removed because people always find an inventive way to get around that. Also 4:20 refers to the time that the action will begin and not actual drug use. You aren't even permitted to bring alcohol in that park.

Yes, hide from the problem by defending it.

[keith johnson]

You know, there was a time when if you tried to post a swear word, the powers that be would rip it down off this board asap. Now, you can go ahead and promote drug use in a tournament name. Nice. Well, guess I'll be running the Spoon and Needle Brownstone open next summer...thats cool right?

Word censoring was removed because people always find an inventive way to get around that. Also 4:20 refers to the time that the action will begin and not actual drug use. You aren't even permitted to bring alcohol in that park.

PUULLLEEAASSSEEE Barry - lets just change it to the 4:19PM Labor Day Event or just 4PM and it can start at whatever time he wants.

As cute as everybody "thinks" they are being - there aren't many people involved with the sport that don't think only 1 thing when the number is mentioned.



And before Henley tries to play dumb with me, he knows he better come back with facts and not conjecture.

[12StonesScott]

The mass media might not care if McCabe wins $5,500 or $55,000, but he cares and so should anyone who says they love Disc Golf.

Obviously, and we do, or we wouldn't spending so much time on this discussion. My point was to refute the claim that bigger purses would mean more coverage/interest from the media and the public. That's one of the arguments that's often put forth for why we should all be willing to pay til it hurts in terms of extra fees added onto tournament entries.

Taking it the other way round, let's assume that all ~14,000 PDGA members contributed an extra $5 per tournament (instead of $1) they play in for a whole year. How many tourneys do most members play in a year? Sure, some folks play dozens of them, but the vast majority only a handful, if any. So let's be extremely generous and say 10. That's $50 per member per year, or a total of about $700,000. Assuming that will get paid out to competitors in something like a manner proportional to the PDGA pay tables, that means roughly 12% goes to the biggest dog in the pack -- $84,000. That might be all at one event, if it strictly went to the Pro Worlds winner, or it might be spread across a couple of major events (it also ignores that whatever portion of it comes from female members would be going to the male winners, but we're just spitballing here). So McCabe gets $90,000 instead of $5000. Sure that'll make a difference for him, and I'll be the first to say that I'm sure he deserves it. But next year, you've gotta go out and get that extra $50/year from the same set of people who coughed it up this year. And the next, and the next. And I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that the fact that one event per year has a $90K first prize (or that two events have $45K first prizes, or that three have $30K, etc.) is going to do anything to increase the base from which that money has to be raised. Grand scheme of things, it's just not gonna matter to people who don't already care, and the ones who care are already the ones who shelled out to make it possible.

No one with a 9-5 job is winning World Titles in Open. You can bet the world champion of disc golf every single year worked his butt off to get there. And when we have a governing body thats sanctions 1300 tournaments a year and takes dues, it doesn't seem like $5,500 is very much money for dedicating his life to win their World Title. The World Champ of disc golf knew before they handed him a check, that he wasn't going to win much money, but he did it anyway.

Because of this we know that they play because they LOVE disc golf. So even if the mass media doesn't take notice, the entire disc golf world would. People care when money is life-changing opposed the rich getting richer, this is why we still have game shows.

Heartbreaking as it may be, the fact that someone cares enough about something to dedicate their life to it and to forgo opportunities to do other things in favor of it is no guarantee that the financial rewards for doing so will be commensurate with the effort. To return to my point above, even if all of us who do love disc golf ("the entire disc golf world" as you put it) were to make it our personal mission to fund bigger purses for major events, we can only move the needle so far. And transferring funds directly from our pockets to yours or Eric's or Kenny's or Sarah's or Val's does nothing to make it any easier to come up with that much money the next time around. Either we all collectively dig into our bank accounts again, or that extra money goes away.

The more appealing approach, for me, is to work on increasing the size of "the entire disc golf world" and by doing so to make it a more appealing market for manufacturers, advertisers, and sponsors. If that happens, the amount of money available for tournament payouts will necessarily go up as well. Not to mention the benefits it will have for the 99% of us who'll never get within an Avery Jenkins drive of even competing in a major tournament -- more and better courses, more events at all levels, innovations in equipment, etc.

Anyone who's rated 1000 or higher obviously has the drive and determination to improve their game, and the willingness to prioritize that above other things in their life. It's a matter of understanding what it takes and then being disciplined about doing those things. To attain proportionate financial rewards, they also need to understand what needs to happen to make that possible and pursue that goal with equal discipline and determination. That's why I've tried to point out the practical realities involved in this issue -- so that everyone can see what the road from where we are to where we'd like to be looks like, and how we can most effectively work our way from here to there. Just wishing it were different, or trying to shortcut the process by shaking down anyone who plays a tournament, doesn't work any more than playing once or twice a month and never practicing does if you're trying to be a World Champ.

[djester]

[Dusty]

Dollar may be onto something here. Even the cup stacking champs have gotten a cool mill for winning first. Ridiculous.

[joyaman]

Awesome history lesson by Scott on the PGA/USGA and the comparison showing where disc golf is on the growth curve. Agree that disc golf will have to grow along similar lines to become a legitimate mainstream sport capable of sustaining (financially) a full field of touring pros. Not too many folks actively follow the Pro Bowling tour, but most would consider it to be a legitimate, mainstream sport/game. It's gained enough traction to sustain a core group of tourning pros. I'm pretty sure that this didn't happen overnight either.

That being said, I also think that there are ways to address $'s legitimate concerns/needs in order to be able to play in enough A-Tier, NT and Major events to keep skill levels, ratings and payouts ratcheting upward. Guys like Keith have gone a long way to help some of the top local talent get to the next level, but there are lots of potentially great future pros out there that don't have a benefactor such as Keith in their local area. Paid clinics and lessons should also definitely be in the mix, but to $'s point I also think that the PDGA should do more to underwrite and support touring pros. Marketing and promotion is cool, but it doesn't fill the gas tank or pay for the hotel room and the fabulous road food at Burger King, McDonalds (insert your favorite McFlurry joke here) and KFC.

The point here is that these two goals, (a) growing the sport into the mainstream and (b) financially supporting touring pros are not mutually exclusive goals. One can debate all day as to whether separate organizations are required to make both of these things happen, but I don't think pitting ams against pros is particularly helpful. At this stage of the sport's growth, I don't think that disc golf can afford the luxury of such internal squabbles. I'd rather pay a buck or two more in entry fees and PDGA dues to an earmarked tour-growth fund than pay $10 or $15 weekly to underwrite pros that act like their mother just died each time they draw a doubles partner that's not within 10 points of their lofty player rating.

For those that are hung up on the attire, grooming habits and demeanor of pros, perhaps the tour-growth fund money could be contingent on following some basic rules of conduct. I'm sure those who seriously need this money wouldn't mind shaving or wearing a collared shirt in tourneys. In fact, most of these folks already do comport themeselves well at events. There will always be exceptions (see John Daly side threads), but sponsorship dollars have a built-in mechanism for sorting this out. For example, many of Daly's sponsors are not exactly household names and some of his golf shirts look like the wall at Dixie Speedway.

=my two cents. -ChrisF

[12StonesScott]

One can debate all day as to whether separate organizations are required to make both of these things happen, but I don't think pitting ams against pros is particularly helpful. At this stage of the sport's growth, I don't think that disc golf can afford the luxury of such internal squabbles. I'd rather pay a buck or two more in entry fees and PDGA dues to an earmarked tour-growth fund than pay $10 or $15 weekly to underwrite pros that act like their mother just died each time they draw a doubles partner that's not within 10 points of their lofty player rating.

Amen, brother.

[millayday]

I am all for growing the sport through teaching and helping spread the word to the masses, but so many of the comments on this board ignore the fact that disc golf is a different sport than anything else out there. The niche market, as you describe disc golfers, is composed of a different demographic than most other sports. I'm all for professionalism (even though my attire at certain tourneys might not show that ) but the simple fact remains that disc golf has a much broader appeal to those who are not as inclined to succumb to the formality and snobbiness of ball golf or tennis, or any other sport that requires uniforms and an A-hole disposition. Instead of trying to conform the sport and make it more like the other well established sports, maybe embrace the uniqueness and focus more time and effort on the demographic that actually cares about our sport. Then we can begin to expand beyond that and get more national recognition. Trying to church up the tournaments and the people who play in them is not going to change the fact that the vast majority of those just now taking up disc golf are more likely to be completely fine with drinking some beers and lighting one up on occasion. Whether you like it or not, that is a fact. Look at 90% of the people playing on any course on any given day. I'm sure many of the self righteous jackasses on here will have some witty retort to that, but it doesnt change the truth. Look how successful the X-Games are now. They have no illusions about who their key demographic are, and they market to them. Very successfully and profitably. There is no movement in skateboarding or motocross to clean up the images of those who participate, and there never has been. These were fringe sports when they started out, and they broadened their fan base by marketing to those most likely to enjoy the sport. There has never been a Tony Hawk commercial on MSNBC or Lifetime or The Food Network, because no one on those networks gives a damn about skateboarding. So instead of trying to transform disc golf and the people who play it into something else, maybe we should focus more on the types of people who would actually appreciate the sport, and market to them. Seek out the sponsors who are more in tune with our demographic (and for the many of you reading this who are thinking "I don't smoke or drink, and I lead a nice wholesome life, and I disc golf." Hooray for you. Go back to my comment about looking at 90% of the OTHER people playing any course on any given day and realize that even though you live a chaste and holy existence, it doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of discers playing today are more on the fringes of decent society, or are at least not opposed to those who are. I am in no way advocating drinking or using drugs to further our sport, so dont twist what I'm saying. They have absolutely no place in organized tournaments and their use should not be encouraged, but the fact remains that most of our disc golf brethren are cut from a different cloth than many of you more upstanding individuals, and they shouldn't be chastized because of it. The acceptance in disc golf is what drew many of us into it in the first place).

Now to address the idea that a big purse would not attract more interest from the casual viewer: Really? Are you retarded? How do you think poker got so huge over the last 10 years? Why were ridiculous gameshows like Who Wants to be a Millionaire and Deal or No Deal the most popular thing on TV for a while?It's because they had a million dollars up for grabs and America is an inherently greedy, money fascinated society. Just the idea of a million dollars captivates the minds and imaginations of so many people that they can't help but tune in to watch. Why do baseball player's salaries make headlines when the plight of the underpaid grade school teacher remains largely ignored? Because hearing that someone is being paid $20 million to play a game holds a lot more interest to the average person than hearing about someone making $35K a year. Look at our society and realize that it is very money-centric. If the grand prize for the USDGC was a million dollars I absolutely guarantee that people would tune in whether they had heard of disc golf or not, just to see why someone throwing plastic circles through the air should be paid that much. Once people are exposed to the sport, interest in generated, viewership and sponsors increase, so on and so forth. I fully realize that this isn't really an option with our sport right now, but there were a lot of you on here agreeing that more money wouldn't translate to more interest. You forget what country you live in.

I know I kinda went off in a different direction than the topic at hand, but its something that is rarely discussed. To properly grow the sport will take a lot of initiative. Youth camps, women's clinics, etc are going to play a HUGE part in where the sport goes over the next decade, but don't forget about the overwhelming majority of people who disc golf right now. Focusing more time and effort attracting people in a similar demographic would serve us much better than trying to convert those who are less inclined to appreciate our sport.

And I fully support Dollar'$ notion that a lot of the Ams should spend less time bitching and more time praticing. Ragging on Pros wanting more money does no one any good. The Pro field is what's going to catapult this sport into the national consciousness. The casual viewer isn't going to be interested in watching a casual player. They wanna see the best of the best doing incredible things out on the course. I am nowhere near that level, but thats why I try to play during any free time that I have. One day, with enough practice, anyone can reach the upper echelons of disc golf. It just takes hard work and dedication, just like any other sport out there.

[Funky Bobby J]

David Stern caused a huge ruckus by imposing a travel dress code for NBA players requirng a suit & tie. It caused a huge outcry from players, et al who were outraged. He did this because the image of the NBA is impacted negatively by the way many were dressing amongst other things. That diminished appeal impacts revenue and viewership in the long term.

Of course not every player in every pro league is a posterchild of ambassador-dom, but if you want to get taken seriously, you have to take yourself seriously with regards to your chosen profession. An up & coming sport has to try that much harder to gain legitamacy. Once established, the Nikkos of the world are seen as colorful characters - until then, in the eyes of the uninformed, he is just another disshovelled clown that tosses those frisbees around.

[billnchristy]

The problem with the skateboard/X-games analogy is that we are not extreme in any way shape or form. While we may find it pretty killer to throw a disc insane distances most people would either not care or watch it once and be done with it.

We are either the homeless guy with the camper or the brunette girl at the blonde party...either way we don't quite fit in even if we do have something we can provide.

[djester]

I have to disagree Bill, it is pretty extreme throwing a disc through trees with an "s" turn .

[billnchristy]

Woah....through the trees??



Forget what I said earlier.

[12StonesScott]

Woah....through the trees??



Forget what I said earlier.

I think that was "through the trees", not "through a tree". Cuz if it's the latter, then there's that lumberjack competition thing you see on ESPN 12 or something in the middle of the night sometimes that maybe we could piggyback on.

[billnchristy]

Oh those are sweet...the ones with the custom chainsaws with VW Bug engines in them are the best.

[Woodrow]

I typed out a response to this, and I thought I hit submit, but I cant find it. Maybe a moderator can find it and repost it for me since Im such a nice guy.

Searched records and couldn't find it - you'll have to redo word by word from your memory.

Never, never, ever gets it.

[Woodrow]

....Thanks for putting everyone involved in running this tournament in a bind! You know who you are and I have no trust or respect for you anymore!....

What else would you expect? When from the beginning, it was decided to confiscate any Master's money to pad the Open field payout. What a crock!

[keith johnson]

I typed out a response to this, and I thought I hit submit, but I cant find it. Maybe a moderator can find it and repost it for me since Im such a nice guy.

Searched records and couldn't find it - you'll have to redo word by word from your memory.

Never, never, ever gets it.

Since you were not at the Event - this time it is YOU who doesn't ever get it.

[Woodrow]

But I still got the joke; AND I didn't get screwed like the rest of you.

[keith johnson]

I was so far out after the bunCR rule it didn't change me catching up.

[Redan Randy]

(insert your favorite McFlurry joke here)

+

=

[luke]

Sounds like this was a great time. What the hell's going on in this thread? Never mind. I'm going to cut down some trees or something.

[Woodrow]

I was so far out after the bunCR rule it didn't change me catching up.

So, what you're saying is, "It didn't affect me(Keith Johnson), so it doesn't matter."? There's something seriously wrong with that attitude.

[VERMIN]

I didn't get to play in this event but I couldn't help noticing something the pisses me off about it when I read the this thread.

I went through the thread and there are a ton of comments of stuff about ratings, payouts,etc.,and than that is all well and good. The sad part is there are only about 3 or 4 damn thank you's to all of the folks that ran the event or volunteered their time to set up, or work at the venue's.

That's some pretty freakin' weak sauce in my opinion.

I for one thank Vach for running the event, John for his continued work at Perk and also to Kelly and his family for letting us all enjoy a kick ass venue. Also thanks to anyone that grabbed a weedeater, a machete, a shovel, or any other damn tool to help the courses be a little more enjoyable for all.





I will put my soapbox away now and get back to work.

[12StonesScott]

Now to address the idea that a big purse would not attract more interest from the casual viewer: Really? Are you retarded? How do you think poker got so huge over the last 10 years? Why were ridiculous gameshows like Who Wants to be a Millionaire and Deal or No Deal the most popular thing on TV for a while?It's because they had a million dollars up for grabs and America is an inherently greedy, money fascinated society. Just the idea of a million dollars captivates the minds and imaginations of so many people that they can't help but tune in to watch. Why do baseball player's salaries make headlines when the plight of the underpaid grade school teacher remains largely ignored? Because hearing that someone is being paid $20 million to play a game holds a lot more interest to the average person than hearing about someone making $35K a year. Look at our society and realize that it is very money-centric. If the grand prize for the USDGC was a million dollars I absolutely guarantee that people would tune in whether they had heard of disc golf or not, just to see why someone throwing plastic circles through the air should be paid that much. Once people are exposed to the sport, interest in generated, viewership and sponsors increase, so on and so forth. I fully realize that this isn't really an option with our sport right now, but there were a lot of you on here agreeing that more money wouldn't translate to more interest. You forget what country you live in.

I'll repeat my earlier question -- if money qua money is so inherently interesting, why aren't we all watching "Hedge Fund Idol"? Why isn't the notification of the winners of the Publisher's Clearinghouse Sweepstakes a major television event? Why don't the major networks cover corporate board meetings where multi-million dollar stock option packages are awarded to mediocre CEOs? People watch game shows because at some level they see themselves in the contestants, playing along and wishing or thinking that they could do as well or better if they had the chance, because answering trivia questions or guessing which door to open seems relatively easy to do. Likewise with poker -- who hasn't played it, and who doesn't think they could make a decent showing given the chance.

The major sports are major for a reason -- they've established over time that they are inherently interesting to a large portion of the populace. People by the millions went to minor league baseball games every year for over a century, even when the stakes for everyone involved were nearly as small as in disc golf today -- they weren't there because there was a huge amount of money on the line, but because, for whatever reason, they enjoyed watching people play baseball, and for most of the century the major league game was restricted to a handful of cities in the Northeast and Midwest.

I know I kinda went off in a different direction than the topic at hand, but its something that is rarely discussed. To properly grow the sport will take a lot of initiative. Youth camps, women's clinics, etc are going to play a HUGE part in where the sport goes over the next decade, but don't forget about the overwhelming majority of people who disc golf right now. Focusing more time and effort attracting people in a similar demographic would serve us much better than trying to convert those who are less inclined to appreciate our sport.

Please reconcile this with your statement below that we should all be spending all our free time practicing. If we're doing that, we're not spending the time evangelizing for the sport either among its natural demographic as you've defined it, or among others who may not know about it yet. That there is a demographic that seems to have a natural affinity for the sport is a reasonable enough statement. The important question, however, is about the growth potential for the sport among that demographic vs. others. Are there enough members of that "natural demographic" that don't know about or haven't tried disc golf to offer the potential for growth, or do most of them already know about it and have decided it's not for them? The other part of that question is how much potential additional revenue for the sport overall (in tournament entries, sponsorships, disc and equipment sales, etc.) that demographic can offer.The flip side of that, of course, is how many potential participants and how much potential revenue is represented by other possible target demographics? Which one offers greater potential return on investment? I don't know the answer, but it's the question you have to ask if you really want to see the sport become financially sustaining for even a small number of the best players.

And I fully support Dollar'$ notion that a lot of the Ams should spend less time bitching and more time praticing. Ragging on Pros wanting more money does no one any good. The Pro field is what's going to catapult this sport into the national consciousness. The casual viewer isn't going to be interested in watching a casual player. They wanna see the best of the best doing incredible things out on the course. I am nowhere near that level, but thats why I try to play during any free time that I have. One day, with enough practice, anyone can reach the upper echelons of disc golf. It just takes hard work and dedication, just like any other sport out there.

Please. "Ams" weren't the ones who started this round of bitching. The suggestion was made by a pro player that ams should give the pros more of their money, simply because they're pros and they work hard and sacrifice to improve their game, and because it's a shame that a world champion gets a measly $5000 for his effort. I think all of us agree that it's a shame, but we don't all agree that the solution to the problem is for us to shell out more of the money that we earn in those hours we spend working instead of playing or practicing disc golf.

The point I've been trying to get across is that even if we paid the extra dollar per tournament, or five dollars per tournament, or whatever, IT'S NOT GOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM!

To get the first place payout for even one major tournament up to $50,000 would, by my calculations based on the standard PDGA pay tables, mean a total purse of $450,000 or so (for perspective, the total purse for all PDGA pro events in 2009 was just under $2 million). The purse for Pro Worlds this year was $77,000. That's over $370,000 extra dollars that has to come from somewhere. Given that there are just short of 14000 active PDGA members, we'd need an average of over $26 per member to make that kind of nut. And given that a whole lot of PDGA members play only a handful or even no tournaments in a given year, you'd have to target a lot more than a dollar per event per player to even get close. Put another way, given that there were just over 79,000 competitors in PDGA-sanctioned tournaments in 2009, you'd need five dollars from each and every one of them at every event (am, women, juniors, all of 'em) to get that extra $370K just to get ONE event up to a $50K first prize. And that's assuming that the extra five dollars didn't dissuade a single one of them from playing those tournaments.

How likely does all of that sound? Oh, and by the way, is it still your position that that extra money will bring the TV cameras flocking around if it's $50K at stake for first instead of a million? No? So then what (aside from the 60 or so pros who cashed at Worlds who'll be happier) have we collectively bought for ourselves for the $370K? Isn't it likely that the same $370K invested in other types of efforts could do more to improve the sport for everyone, which would in turn improve it (albeit less dramatically) for the pros as well, as more sponsorship and advertising dollars flow into the sport?

As for subsidizing the pros as Chris F. suggested, the practicalities of that are even more challenging. Just to take round numbers, if you took the top 50 players and tried to provide them with $20K each per year to cover housing and travel expenses, tournament entry fees, etc. for a year, you'd need an even million to make that happen. That's over $70 per PDGA member, or over $12 per tournament participant.

The "pro field" isn't going to "catapult this sport into national consciousness", whatever that means. You're right that the casual viewer has no interest in the casual player. But right now, they have no interest in the outstanding pro players either. Aside from the top pros, the only people with any interest are the casual players, and some small fraction of their friends and relations. Increase that pool enough, and you'll eventually have something that will attract the attention of enough advertisers and sponsors to be able to make some kind of headway in increasing the financial rewards for the pros.

[billnchristy]

Don't ams supplement the pro purse enough anyways?

Not true?

Run a pro only event with no cash added sponsorship and see what the total prize is...lets keep it simple and do $20 with 10 people.

$200 pot.

1st $72
2nd $49
3rd $34
4th $25
5th $20

Killer job Fuzzy, you just netted $52 for 8 hours of work or 6.50 an hour tax free.

Lets keep it the same with 20 ams added (because of our parasitic nature we flock to these things in the hopes that Grease got a new stock of Polecats) at $10 a head netting another $200. ($160 cash for 200 in vouchers).

I payout 100% and add the $40 cash back into the pro pot

1st $86
etc

So MY presence, which is seen as a blight to some of you guys just basically paid for your entry and you now net $66....or 8.25 an hour...MINIMUM WAGE!!! WOOHOO!!!!

With that example each of the 20 ams paid $2 to the pro purse, or 100% more than what was originally considered fair...or wait, should this be in addition?

[billnchristy]

Suppose I should offer a solution instead of just more complaining:

The PDGA reaches probably 1% of the players...they need to find a way to become valuable to non-tournament players. This is your key. 19000 members...whoopdedoo, when you could have 400,000 or more.

If you want someone to take notice you need to have numbers...not money numbers, people numbers...the two will fall into place when corporate America cannot ignore you because your money will actually mean something.

Right now we are to Corporate America what adding a dollar to the pro purse is for disc golf...a drop in the bucket.

[millayday]

I actually just wanted to see if I could waste that 12 Stone Scott guys time. He's obviously one of the self righteous people I was talking about. I could give exactly 1 half of a dead rats a$$ for the history lessons and visions for the future. I'm sure there will be another lengthy response, and thats awesome that he has the time to look all that crap up. But the reality of where our sport is at and who we appeal to is not going to change anytime soon. That doesn't mean that we can't break into the mainstream and start making money. The ways of the world have changed, and there are a lot more people willing to embrace a sport more on the edge than in times past. When I got to play a round with a couple of the top guys (wont name names, but they're in the top 10 in the world) I was asked if I was a "disc golfer" before the round started. They sure weren't asking if I threw discs (most of my fellow "disc golfers" can read between the lines). The fact remains that the large majority of people involved in our sport embrace activities and lifestyles that the older generation might not agree with. And I am all for that. That is not going to prevent the sport from growing. Obviously that stuff shouldn't be put in the forefront of our disc golf initiatives, but if sports like the X-Games can get millions of dollars in sponsorships and advertising, then why can't we? I only use the X-Games analogy because they began similarly on the fringe, and their key demographic is strinkingly similar to a large number of disc golfers out there. While we're not "extreme" per se, we still appeal to the same types of people.

By the way, propelling the sport into the national consciousness means making the sport more visible to people in the nation (I'm told we're called the USA). I shouldnt have to do vocabulary lessons on here. Pros are the ones who will be responsible for that. How else could interest be generated in the public? All the initiatives you talk about are great, but when it comes down to attracting interest and viewership, it's going to take the public seeing the best of the best in action and realizing the potential that lies within our sport. So spend more time practicing and less time beatin on the keyboard

[billnchristy]

Yes you need pros dude, but you gotta have people that give a damn about those pros and that is why you need to build a foundation....who is going to come watch you otherwise?

I guess you could put tournaments on at Dead & Cypress Hill shows since that is the audience you want to reach...they have pretty good crowds.

[Redan Randy]

I will put my soapbox away now and get back to work.

You're doing a great job Vern!! Keep up the good work!!!

[gvan]

I actually just wanted to see if I could waste that 12 Stone Scott guys time. He's obviously one of the self righteous people I was talking about. I could give exactly 1 half of a dead rats a$$ for the history lessons and visions for the future. I'm sure there will be another lengthy response, and thats awesome that he has the time to look all that crap up. ...

So spend more time practicing and less time beatin on the keyboard

Ahh yes. Even better than doing research and making points based on facts... fling insults.

Scott is one of the people working HARD to advance the sport. He puts time, effort and money into the sport like few others. He personally drove my son up and down the state of Ohio this summer to make it to his tee times when I was at another park. He doesn't say it would help to run youth clinics, he has run them.

As for practicing more, where does that even come into the equation? The discussion is about ams feeding even more cash into the pro purse. Everyone could practice more and improve. Why did you waste time answering Scott's post? You could have gotten in 50 more putts today!

[gvan]

When I got to play a round with a couple of the top guys (wont name names, but they're in the top 10 in the world) I was asked if I was a "disc golfer" before the round started. They sure weren't asking if I threw discs (most of my fellow "disc golfers" can read between the lines). The fact remains that the large majority of people involved in our sport embrace activities and lifestyles that the older generation might not agree with. And I am all for that. That is not going to prevent the sport from growing.

Please provide empirical evidence that the "large majority" support these "activities and lifestyles." I assume you refer to drugs and not the other common use of "alternate lifestyle," but you may want to clarify.

My experience is much different. I just started playing a couple of years ago and most of the people I see and/or play with are non-users (as far as I know). Perhaps that's because people tend to hang out in like-minded groups. This is an effect called "confirmation bias." I'd ask you to look that up, but I know you will eschew that in order to practice more.

[billnchristy]

Only on the ADGO board could a hard working family man be called self righteous.

Also...if we were to become "real discgolfers" how could we afford to keep padding your purse?

I mean, if it will help I will quit my job and move into my mom's basement and I suppose I could open up a lemonade stand or something...

[djester]

You have a job?

[thedude]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frsId3goYYE A true professional

[billnchristy]

You have a job?

Yeah dude, I sell lemonade...

I'll be out at Lenora on Monday selling pints for $2.

[gvan]

You have a job?

Yeah dude, I sell lemonade...

I'll be out at Lenora on Monday selling pints for $2.

Good to know! (click)

[joyaman]

Bill. Wasn't suggesting anything near $20K per pro. Simply entry fees and some gas money that could be applied for based on a rating+need formula, where the top money winners wouldn't be eligible. I'm talking about helping more players like Matt play in more NTs, etc...not underwriting the majority of the Open field.

[keith johnson]

I was so far out after the bunCR rule it didn't change me catching up.

So, what you're saying is, "It didn't affect me(Keith Johnson), so it doesn't matter."? There's something seriously wrong with that attitude.

My opinion was asked for and given - used and then reversed the next day after several different stories were told and much like Greg is doing - the less said the better, because the TD changed his mind twice and stuck with a decision that the rule book couldn't defend, instead of the original one that the rule book could defend - it is over and done with and except for the people involved and the others affected in the OPEN division anyone that wanted to has said their piece at the Event and if they want to say anything else - I wouldn't know or hear about it.

My "joke" was to basically not say anything about it, but since you want to make it look like I'm selfish - I responded with a little more back story - so others who weren't there hopefully won't see it in the same jaded way you look at all my posts.

[billnchristy]

Bill. Wasn't suggesting anything near $20K per pro. Simply entry fees and some gas money that could be applied for based on a rating+need formula, where the top money winners wouldn't be eligible. I'm talking about helping more players like Matt play in more NTs, etc...not underwriting the majority of the Open field.

The problem with that is who is worthy?

There are 11 guys with the same rating as Matt and 2900 something below him listed as pro, lets say that of the 3000, 1100 wanted the opportunity to tour. Let's say that we were going to send each one of those guys to 3 events within a days drive of their home. 1 event, 2 days stay, 6 meals (breakfast is free at hotel), a tank of gas and some miscellaneous spending cash.

lets say 60 bucks a night for the hotel, $35 a day per diem, $35 for a tank of gas, and $20 spending cash. $345 a trip so each guy needs a little over 1k supplemented, so lets just round it.

1100 guys want $1k free, 110000 bucks.

Let's add another 50 for pro women who want to tour, and we have a grand total of 160k we need to raise.

We have 9107 ams and to provide the supplement above EVERY one of them would have to agree to a $17.56 debit.

And this only gets 1/3 of our pros to THREE events.

If we had 91007 ams it would only need $1.75 a person....don't you see?? We NEED a foundation and you NEED ams, what we have right now is just like people said, I take money out of my pocket and give it to you, 3 months later I cash at your event and take a little back, to which I give to someone else....

[Woodrow]

My opinion was asked for and given - ....

I always value your opinions (Really, I do.), but this time your opinion is not as relevant as the rules that every sanctioned tournament is required to operate by. In this regard, the rules are clear; absolutely clear. In fact, there is no part of this issue that is not covered by these rules and yes, I am aware of all of the factors involved. Is the PDGA Tour Manager?

[12StonesScott]

But the reality of where our sport is at and who we appeal to is not going to change anytime soon. That doesn't mean that we can't break into the mainstream and start making money.

If "who we appeal to is not going to change anytime soon", how exactly does it follow that we can "break into the mainstream and start making money"? If the sport appeals only to those who're already part of it, what's going to change to make that breakthrough possible?

Despite being retarded and self-righteous (or maybe because of it), I really don't care at all what anyone else, disc golfer or not, smokes, drinks, ingests, or otherwise consumes. It doesn't matter to me at all. The only time it makes any difference is if and when people indulge in illegal activities while using a public course; I feel the same way about that as I do about vandalism or destruction of public property. We have enough problems getting courses built and maintained that we don't need anyone giving local governments a pretext for getting rid of them. Go back through this thread and you'll find exactly one statement I've made that even touches on this aspect of the issue, when I said that we don't have the luxury of indulging the bad behavior of our leading players the way other sports do. Even then, I was thinking more of the sort of things football and basketball players do that end up with them wearing the orange jumpsuits than I was about who does or doesn't smoke, drink, or say things stronger than "golly gee" in the presence of a microphone. The rest of what I've said has been about the practical realities of getting more money into the pockets of the pro players. I've done so at length because there's been a whole lot of wishful thinking thrown around, and I'd rather see people working on solutions that stand some chance of achieving the goals we're after, instead of blindly pursuing strategies that cannot possibly succeed. You've made it clear that you're not interested in either historical precedent or "visions for the future", which doesn't leave you much basis for coming up with an approach other than "but I WANT IT"; good luck with that. I'll still be over here in my little corner trying to do things that actually move the needle, even if it's only a small bit.

[atl scott]

I really don't care at all what anyone else, disc golfer or not, smokes, drinks, ingests, or otherwise consumes. It doesn't matter to me at all. The only time it makes any difference is if and when people indulge in illegal activities while using a public course

[djester]

Does this mean that "The Lower Bongwater Classic" is going to be held at Erp?

[grease]

As Vern mentioned, how about a big thanks to Vach, Ritger, and Kelley for getting this together? You typing enthusiasts can start your own thread. Seriously, give it a break. My eyes and brain hurt trying to read all this pablum and it's better wasted time somewhere else. All good points, mind you, but stop detracting from the tourney.